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Original poster

Call to end "middle class" benefits

292 replies

AtheneNoctua · 22/10/2009 08:09

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8319646.stm

"It defines middle class as a household where every adult has an annual income of at least £15,000 and every child £5,000. "

OP posts:
BobbingForPeachys · 22/10/2009 12:13

PMSL-also moved here as commutable for DH to bristol /Somerset without higher costs invovled with living there.

Damn that Bristol (and cheaper even taking into acocunt bridge tolls, whcih says something!)

LilyBolero · 22/10/2009 12:13

We can't afford to live OUT of Bristol - because of work, we HAVE to be in the city. So we have to pay the higher housing costs, council taxes (which are EXTORTIONATE) for Bristol.

If we moved out;
I would have no income
We would need a second car

The biggest problem we are going to face is secondary schools - the Bristol schools are rubbish, and we can't afford either to move or to pay.

THEFRINGE · 22/10/2009 12:14

I would have to move much further than an hour away to fnd cheaper rent.

Then the cost of moving, the risk of giving up fair jobs and the question of who would care for my elderly mother when I'm not 20 mins down the road

But I guess those sort of things are not important when you don't live in the real world

scaryteacher · 22/10/2009 12:14

I think with some benefits it is easier and cheaper to pay them for everyone (child benefit, winter fuel allowance, free tv licence for those over 75) than it is to means test them. Easier because then those who need them will benefit (some elderly will NOT be means tested as to them it smacks of charity, and no they won't 'get over it') and cheaper because there will not be a need for more civil servants to do the means testing.

For those who say test disposable income, you are into dangerous territory, as whilst it may the concern of HMRC how much I earn, it is no business of theirs what I spend it on; that is freakily nanny state (no you can't have CB, you use private education/buy expensive shoes/shop at Waitrose) and very intrusive.

THEFRINGE · 22/10/2009 12:16

So people in council houses and flats do not get their whole rent paid? That must just be my imagination

Gracie123 · 22/10/2009 12:16

Who are you suggesting doesn't live in the real world?

Do you think it is easy to move 5 hours away from everyone you know when you are 7 months pg and live in a one bed apartment? I'm glad you think my fairytale sounds so wonderful.

I'm sorry, but if you have to live in an expensive area because of your job, why not look for a new job?

becstarlitsea · 22/10/2009 12:17

MP - well, yes, it's life if you can afford to buy a car. Otherwise moving a hour's drive away actually means moving three buses and a train away which is a lot tougher.

And I don't get the debate between renting and buying. We can in no way, no how, no chance, afford to buy a house, flat or parking space in London. (actually we can't afford to buy one in Hull or the Hebrides, or anywhere!). If you bought a house, you're quite well off in my book. Good on you, it is quite a privilege to be that well off.

Gracie123 · 22/10/2009 12:18

If you are so convinced that it is easy to get your rent paid on housing benefit why don't you sell up and do it?

BobbingForPeachys · 22/10/2009 12:18

Means testing wouldn't work anyway, it could never be sensitive enough

For example we could cut down our £125 shopping bill- if we didn't have 2 children on a gluten and casein free diet, and two of us (including me) on a casein free one.

it'snot optional- not without lifelong diarrhoea anyway (niiice LOL), but what sort of system could possibly take that into account?

Lily- ouch, it is expensive there isn't it? We did think about it (DH ahted commuting and I was offered that Uni) but it would have been unmanageable so i accepted a somewhat lesser Uni and DH drove. Was all we could do.

LilyBolero · 22/10/2009 12:18

I don't think you can test disposable income, and yet I think that is the crux of the matter.

And at the risk of sounding like the Daily Mail, it does sting a bit when you see people at the school gate who you KNOW don't work, get everything in benefits, but can afford way more than you can in terms of luxuries, holidays, cars, clothes etc. And then you are told that YOU are the one to be hit harder by cuts, because you supposedly have the higher income.

Paolosgirl · 22/10/2009 12:19

Gracie - lucky you in that there was a job there for you. Perhaps in this climate people are desperately hanging onto the one they have?

I'm also laughing at the thought of all 5 of us moving 200 miles to live with my mum and dad in their 3 bed semi - with both of us giving up our jobs here and moving to no job

BobbingForPeachys · 22/10/2009 12:20

becstarlit that's true atm, but plenty of people bought years ago when in all truth, buying was cheaper than renting- our first home cost £52k. Yo won't get much for that nowadays!

LilyBolero · 22/10/2009 12:22

We simply could not move, we have to live here for work. That work does not exist elsewhere.

Gracie123 · 22/10/2009 12:23

You wouldn't move until you had the job, obviously. It's not like we just ran up here and hoped one would turn up.

We spent months searching, and yes, slept on peoples sofa's and even in a church between may and september whilst looking.

Assuming that you are managing to hang on to your job where you are now, there is no harm in looking elsewhere at the same time.

Original poster
AtheneNoctua · 22/10/2009 12:23

I think everyone who owns a house should sell it, give the proceeds of sale to Gordon Brown, and then apply for pulic housing. Only then can Britain truly achieve it's goal of socialism.

What ever happened to letting people keep a bit of their hard earned money because... God Forbid... they earned it.

OP posts:
Gracie123 · 22/10/2009 12:23

p.s. my sister lived in our parents garage for 6 months. A 3 bed sounds cushy.

Gracie123 · 22/10/2009 12:25

Athene - I agree entirely, if you can afford to. But what I hear is people complaining they can't afford to keep what they've earned so no-one else should be entitled to any help - even though they earn less

BobbingForPeachys · 22/10/2009 12:25

Luckily, Dh was never on call or anything so could just drive in (we're just across the bridge).

Before we moved it was the same drive (somerset) but no Uni there- one commuting overall less costly than 2 after all.Plus we lived in a crap house in a shit town( Bridgwater, and not the nice parts either).

Life is so bloody complex isn't it? That's why it's ahrd to jusge really, even when people know the full facts- as they so rarely do

THEFRINGE · 22/10/2009 12:26

I brought my house after dh and I spent 10 years saving a deposit but due to cuts in hours we cannot afford to make the payments.

The house is on the market as it's pointless to keep struggling lke this when we cannot even afford intrest only payments. If we are lucky we will be able to sell, pay the fee's and have enough left over for a deposit on a one bed flat with no garden.

I live in a shitty area of a large town which is close to London and a Uni town so rents/house prices are sky high.

Life is shit Gracie - you don't have to tell me that.

BobbingForPeachys · 22/10/2009 12:27

Because Athene that at its logical conclusion would mean no fallback system, including for those who earn now- I did, for many years before becomng a carer. Most people in need now did, after all- pensioners or whatever.

THEFRINGE · 22/10/2009 12:31

Myabe we should all upsticks and move to the cheaper parts of the country - that would work wouldn't it

Paolosgirl · 22/10/2009 12:31

Totally different story if you're on your own, or just a couple pre kids - but you honestly suggest that we move 3 kids from school, primary and his first year of secondary school and move 200 miles to my parents house (garage?!)? Are you completely mad? Why on earth would I do that, simply to save GB?

Don't forget - areas go up in price as well. When we were having our first baby, we moved out to this New Town from Edinburgh where house prices were extortionate. Unfortunately everyone had the same idea, so what was a cheap area 15 years ago has now become expensive.

BobbingForPeachys · 22/10/2009 12:33

THEFRINGe- yep it just might becuase it would push prices down elsewhere

Gracie123 · 22/10/2009 12:36

No, not to save GB. Because you can't afford to live where you are.

If you can great. Obviously it's not a fantastic idea to move your three kids, I never said it was. But if you can't afford to live where you are, that is an option whilst the economy recovers.

Nobody enjoys the credit crunch, you just do what you can to get your family through it.

And what's wrong with everyone moving to cheaper parts of the country? I assume you mean that they will become more desirable and therefore expensive?

Yes, that is the point. The economy levels out over the country. Hopefully if you managed to buy a house whilst it was cheap (ie moved before your finances got too bad) then you will have made a packet on selling your now more valuable house and you could move on to another cheaper area if you like. Or you can sit smugly knowing you paid less for your house than your next door neighbour.

Sorry, why doesn't it work?

THEFRINGE · 22/10/2009 12:36

Good point peachy - can everyone please vacate my town for a cheaper alterntive