Call to end "middle class" benefits

[AtheneNoctua]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8319646.stm

"It defines middle class as a household where every adult has an annual income of at least £15,000 and every child £5,000. "

Of course, an income of £15000 a year makes you middle class

Class has nothing to do with money. Why can they not term it "middle income" families?

Yes, I got it now. Sorry for my ignorance.

But I still don't think two working parents with two kids who each bring home £20k make enough money to have their child benefit removed... unless they re-evaluate the tax system and begin to recognise childcare as an expense incurred for the sole purpose of going to work, which is of course what it is for the vast majority.

So, if someone makes £30, and pays out £15k in childcare then their income should be noted for tax purposes as £5k.

So, if someone makes £30, and pays out £15k in childcare then their income should be noted for tax purposes as £15k.

I'm going to go away and lear how to type now.

i have found that going over £34k household income means that i get fuck all towards my £8k+ annual childcare bill.

You can go to work in standard clothes. Having smart ones is not required. But you cannot go to work without childcare.

£15000k for an adult is only about £3000 above minimum wage so ludacris to say it's 'middle class income'

Riven - I think that argument applies to those that are too lazy to work. You chose to have them - now support them.

People with children should be encouraged and helped to work. Not told 'tough, you choose to have them, now deal with it'

It's this backward attitude (helpng those who won't work and not those who do) that's gotten us this rdicoulous benefits/tax system

we were better off when i worked 3 days a week and did qualify for tax credits.

I'm very at some of the figures on this thread. We have 4 dcs and my dh earns £50k plus commission (used to make it to loads, now not so much) and we struggle. In fact he earns less than we need and are in crisis debt mode because he used to earn more and we spent more. Child benefit is a blanket benefit that all should receive, at times this has been the only way we have managed to eat. If you really don;t need child benefit then you should not claim it, or give it to charity.

£40k is not a lot of money. My DH brings home less than half his wage....

but then you have to decide on what age to "stop" taxing them on a lower income because of childcare, Athene - and what of those that get free childcare from family/friends?

So

A in your office makes £30, and pays out £15k in childcare then their income should be noted for tax purposes as £15k. (to use your example)

B in your office has the same number of children and earns the same as you - but gets taxed more......because they have free childcare.

Well yes always, because 'B' would have more disposable income wouldn't they

We would manage without child benefit, but we would have really struggled if I hadn't got ANY maternity pay.

If they are going to look at household income to determine whether you get what are at the moment universal benefits, then they can use the same information to share personal tax allowance across the household.

We live in the SE, and trust me ShauntheSheep - £35K total income for our household would not equate to an 'upper middle class' lifestyle. Our income is considerably more than that, but even then we still have to budget carefully.

ABetaDad - totally agree with you WRT to tax allowances etc. The system needs to be hugely simplifed - low earners should be totally exempt from tax and therefore not need to claim tax credits. The savings that would come from less beauracracy, waste and incorrect payments would be huge.

well if I was B and I was being taxed more than A who earned the same as me and had the same number of children I would be p*ssed off.

And "disposable" income is a bit of a misnoma isn't it

A and B could be paying the same amount of tax and one still have more left over each month

As someone who chooses to be SAHM even though I could make a fair amount of money, I agree that if the gov't make it similar cost to be at home as working they will have a massive influx of people choosing to do that. It has to be a system where it is better for your family if you work, or no-one would. Surely we'd all choose to be at home with kids if we could afford to?

Many people on less than 15k have more disposable income as they have housing benefit etc.A lot of regular families once they pay their mortgages etc are left with v little and do rely on tax credits

p.s. we are entitled to some benefits which we don't claim because a)don't need to b) too much paperwork. This is due mostly to the fact that we live in the far north and life is cheaper up here.

I think benefits should be related more to where you live. We earn nothing like 35k aliboo...

Personally I think that people have relied on benefits for too long, our country pays out massive amounts every year to people by way of benefits and we take advantage of it. We live in a poor country at the minute and it's not just the banks fault it's ours as well we've bled our country dry. I do agree that 40k a year should not class a family as middle class but it is a decent amount of money and more than enough to get by on, we should be thankful for what we have got (NHS, Schools...) and just get on with it, things could be a lot worse.

I do think there should be a total reform for the benefits, they shouldn't be given out so easy and only those who absoultly have no other option should be relying on them to survive. I sound harsh but I think that's what is needed, our govt is too soft and has been for a long time.

You wouldn't be pissed off, you would, if you had any sense, send your child to a nursery and clam your tax back

We could always bring back the workhouses emma - that would show the poor

I should have added to that last post