Call to end "middle class" benefits

[AtheneNoctua]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8319646.stm

"It defines middle class as a household where every adult has an annual income of at least £15,000 and every child £5,000. "

agree paolosgirl - I know for a fact that a working family might earn half what I do, yet have higher disposable income

When we had a mortgage we were coverd by insurance we chose to take out; we knew that we owuld have the option of either selling the house and going into rented if something terrible happened 9and it did, and we did) or gain eventually through paying off mortgage and owning the house.

Now we pay £600 pcm into a void 9albeit one we are happy to pay into) with no payment free period or option to downscale; the HB is the insurance. ALl people have the option of rented after all, home ownership is desirable rather than forced.

Plus after a while MI is reclaimable isn't it? It's just the capital that isn't. I do think there should be some way around that- 6 months help (has to be limited to stop people profiteering) with capital repayment for which you accept a limited time on a higher tax band on return to work, or similar. Homelessness is expensive for the country.

Absolutely - it's all relative depending on where you live. We need to live in central London for DH's work (he works all over London - Harrow one week, Banstead the next, Chelsea the next, East End the next - and we can't afford a car so he has to get whereever it is on public transport. Which is fine as long as you start from somewhere relatively central). Now that DS has a free nursery place it isn't so bad but before that our basic outgoings were...

Rent (for small two bed flat on top floor in Kilburn, no garden, kitchen too small for a freezer, dishwasher or washing machine) = £1,200 per month
Childcare = £500 per month (now FREE! Yipee!)
Council tax = £111 per month
Then there's electricity, gas, food etc.

Our income is about £1,400 per month (just under £25k before tax). At times this year it's been even less due to the credit crunch.

Tell me that stuff about cutting one's cloth again, I need a good laugh.

but thedollshouse why should the govt just give you money to live off becuase you have children and live in an expensive area? You chose to have children and live in an expensive area you should be able to support yourself. I know that sounds awful, I really don't mean to be but thats just how I see it. Taxpayers money should be spent on people who have no other option and improving the serices used by everyone.

I have already said that the govt should help out people like yourself with incentives but not cash handouts, govt funded childcare for working parents would be my idea, but in order to get to that point cuts will have to be made.

Um - not a choice in this area. There is a massive shortage of affordable rented accommodation.

The disposable factor is why this isn't workable; it would cost mroe toasess that than they would save.

With the mortgage / rent thing- many years ago I was heavily PG so starting amt leave and DH became ill and lost his job (sacked, not resigned). We owned a home then so instead of defaulting and ending up homeless and bankrupt (had a fair amount of debt then) we sold up,paid off all we owned and moved into a rented house. Not claiming HB btw,, they do take account of that sort of profit- rightly (And DH did get abck into work after 6 months).

People need to elarn to see a home as a financial asset and not just bricks and mortar.

ah bobbing, yes, good old mortgage protection insurance. Costs £££ and doesn't pay until for months and months after redundancy, great. No longer affordable since the insureres hiked the prices in the recessiobn

yes, but you could then rent like everyone else and recieve housing benefit.

Or you could ride out the mortgage repayment and have you house at the end.

What you can't do is have housing benefits to pay your mortgage and effectively buy you a house IYSWIM.

Just getting kind of sick of people you are getting rich off housing benefit. If you could afford a house, you'd have a mortgage. No-one loves the instability of renting.

You could argue that people on any benefits shouldn't have children then, couldn't you emma?

Quote: You chose to have children and live in an expensive area you should be able to support yourself. I know that sounds awful, I really don't mean to be but thats just how I see it.

Blimey Emma, it does sound awful, regardless of whether you mean it.

So the only people who should choose to have children are northeners and bankers?

should have read:

Just getting kind of sick of people who think you are you are getting rich off housing benefit. If you could afford a house, you'd have a mortgage. No-one loves the instability of renting.

Eh? Where are these DC earning 5k a year? Mine earn nothing! Nothing I tell you. Freeloaders

emma, if people didn't 'choose' to have children, then all of our generation will be totally totally stuffed when they retire, with no workers to pay for the pensions, NHS etc etc.

So Emma I should move miles away from family so I can live in a cheaper part of the country?

Cannot believe some of the tosh beng spouted on ths thread, I wonder if some people live on the same planet as me.

Not getting rch Gracie you are missing the point - by recieving HB you are not payng rent/mortagge thus can survive on less income.

TBH FRINGE that is exactly what me and DH had to do. We cannot afford to live in Oxford or Bristol where the rest of our family do, so 3 yrs ago we left everyone we knew and moved 5 hours away to the freezing north.

It's cold, but it's cheap. We've made new friends and family visit. Sometimes you have to make that kind of sacrafice.

not 'you' in particular gracie btw, it was a general 'you'

But you do pay rent, you just get some help towards your rent.

Some people get all their rent paid

'Quote: You chose to have children and live in an expensive area you should be able to support yourself. I know that sounds awful, I really don't mean to be but thats just how I see it.
'

PMSL

apart from the whole debate below, poverty can happen post children you know! We both earned pre-kids. What should we do, hand them back?

Mortgage protection is expensive (and unreliable- DH's boss wouldn't sign form so we didn't get) but it is an option for some that renters don't necessarily have. And as I said (and someone else said also) ultiamtely there is the option of selling up and renting; not easy and a shame but an option nonetheless.

what Gracie said

My family is in Bristol area but we can't afford to live there, so we live an hour's drive away in a much cheaper area

That's life innit

They must be in very small apartments on very low rent...

Re: rent - costs the same per month as buying where we are - often more.
I agree with Gracie123 about the instability of renting. We didn't buy because we had an urge to own bricks and mortar - we bought because there are few homes to rent within 20 miles or so of where we work and ds goes to school and those that are available are often dearer on a monthly basis than mortgage payments (not taking repairs etc into account of course). But the breaker was security of tenure.

They do TheFringe but a great many do not- HB doesn't cover all the costs in someareas for any houses (our woudln't for a start, it's set at £160 less than our cheaply priced house that is smaller than we actually need (according to Paed, 2 disabled kids needing rooms of their own (they don't have btw and not really complaining))

And it is also staggered so only the poorest get 100% costs.

Another option is that families have to live a bit cosier.

My parents remortgaged to pay of my sisters debt and let her and husband and 2 children move back into their home.

Me, DH, DS (and hopefully one more soon) all live in small one bed apartment. It's not ideal, but you can do it.