Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
News
Original poster

Call to end "middle class" benefits

292 replies

AtheneNoctua · 22/10/2009 08:09

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8319646.stm

"It defines middle class as a household where every adult has an annual income of at least £15,000 and every child £5,000. "

OP posts:
LilyBolero · 22/10/2009 10:41

pointy - it's rubbish I know - but this is the argument used by the politicians in the media. Will see if I can find a link in a moment.

I don't really understand the whole financial thing - our income is reasonable, between us prob 50k or so, for a household of 5, to be 6. We don't live a 'lavish' lifestyle, but still find it really hard to make ends meet. For example, we have 1 car, which we use as little as possible to save money on diesel, 2 kids at state primary school, 1 at playgroup (which we would probably have to review if they got rid of the voucher system), usually have 1 UK based self catering holiday a year - maybe costing £400 or so, don't go abroad, go out, or do ANYTHING! We don't buy lots of clothes (or any in fact), the kids don't have loads of toys, we have 1 small tv, no games systems or anything like that - and yet we do struggle.

I think politicians do need to be really careful that they don't make it impossible for people to work - it is GOOD for the economy for people to put kids in childcare and work, and should be encouraged. Make it too difficult/expensive and people simply won't.

sarah293 · 22/10/2009 10:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

LilyBolero · 22/10/2009 10:42

pointy, the reason it is this group of people who 'feel it' is because the policies inevitably affect them the most. The 'rich' don't feel it so much, because they have so much more to begin with, and the 'poor' are rightly benefited. But there's only so many times you can take away from a group of people who are 'just about managing'.

thedollshouse · 22/10/2009 10:45

Lily, I agree with you. We are in a similar situation to you and really struggle. The other day when we were working out our finances I said to dh that if I cannot find a well paid job after the baby is born that we may be in a position where we can no afford to stay together. Sounds drastic and I was very hormonal but sometimes it feels that way.

NancyBotwin · 22/10/2009 10:45

Has no-one mentioned the fact that for some women CB is the only money they can rely on having to spend as they see fit due to a controlling/abusive partner? There have been countless threads where a woman has been trying to survive on CB and WTC/CTC.

emma1785 · 22/10/2009 10:45

AtheneNoctua, totally agree with you it would be great if we didn't have to give so much of our money to Gordon! but because in the past and present our govt has given our money away to easily to people who don't really need benefits or shouldn't be entitled to them we now haven't got enough money to continue on the same way. This is why a total overhaul is needed, before the govt can start giving us money back they need to cut their costs and rebuild the economy. In my opinion parents who want to work are very valuable to society and whilst I don't think they should get cash benefits I do think they should be given other incentives, lower taxes would be great but very unlikely to happen but something like govt funded childcare for working parents would be good.

pointyhat · 22/10/2009 10:45

oh I think the poor feel pretty shafted at times too

LilyBolero · 22/10/2009 10:47

Here's a fairly typical article - he doesn't define 'Middle Class', but you can bet the threshold would be under 40k. In which case, we would be utterly screwed.

I totally disagree with the figure of 40k being a 'top earner salary'. 40k equates to take home pay of about 25k I think. If you have 2 children at private school, that is a minimum of 20k a year in fees (and that is at a 'cheaper' private school - go for the 'posh' schools and you're looking at 21-25k PER PERSON).

THEFRINGE · 22/10/2009 10:47

£40k is good earnings if you get all your rent/mortgage and council tax paid for you.

LilyBolero · 22/10/2009 10:49

I was about to add, that 40k with take home of 25k doesn't include all the utilities/council tax/mortgage/pension etc, which is all to take out of that 25k.

sarah293 · 22/10/2009 10:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

morningpaper · 22/10/2009 10:50

oh I think the poor feel pretty shafted at times too

THEFRINGE · 22/10/2009 10:51

But this policy takes into account joint income Riven. You are forgetting that. A couple with a joint income of 40k are not high earners

THEFRINGE · 22/10/2009 10:51

policy report

sarah293 · 22/10/2009 10:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

THEFRINGE · 22/10/2009 10:53

I don't think the lady on TV the other night, who has 5 children, gets £260 a week in benefits, all her rent and council tax paid feels shafted

LilyBolero · 22/10/2009 10:55

If it's a joint income, then that is the total household income. If it's a single income, then the household income could well be 80k.

pointyhat · 22/10/2009 10:56

To do with the stats, I think riven. Re 10% of the pop earn over £40k each.

A much higher proprtion would earn over £40k per household.

LilyBolero · 22/10/2009 10:56

And if it's a joint income, then there are probably other costs associated with working (ie childcare etc)

pointyhat · 22/10/2009 10:57

come on, fringe. There's no point picking out one example.

What about that large group of people who work but are paid much less than the £20kish average? There's a group we don't often hear from.

thedollshouse · 22/10/2009 10:58

Well exactly THEFRINGE.

I do feel fed up with this country a lot of the time. I was quite shocked to discover when talking to my mum the other day that her friend receives £250 per week in benefits and doesn't have to pay any rent! Which means that he has a disposable income of nearly 3 times the amount we are earning and she only has to feed herself. She is past retirement age and an element of her allowance is to pay for a carer (she has breathing difficulties because of heavy smoking all her life) and yet she doesn't pay a carer because she can manage without one and spends a fortune on taxis and gambling. I imagine my dad is in a similar situation too but I don't really want to broach the subject with him.

The thing that gets me is I know a lot of our family think that because we are both educated and dh wears a suit to work that we have little savings accounts deposited away somewhere. They really don't have a clue.

THEFRINGE · 22/10/2009 10:59

Riven you are saying someone on 40k is a high earner as only 10% of the country earn this amount.

Your argument is silly as many couples earn £40k between them, but they are not high earners.

I think you have a distorted view of the cost of living anyway.

As someone living in the south east, I know the costs of rents, mortgages, council tax bills and I know that £40k does not equal high earners.

sarah293 · 22/10/2009 11:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

LilyBolero · 22/10/2009 11:00

It is about disposable income as well though isn't it. If I give ds1 £10 a week pocket money and dd £2 a week, but tell ds1 he has to buy his food for the week, plus pay rent for his room, he may well at the end of the week have less than £2 to spend, and therefore be 'poorer' than his sister, despite 'earning' 5 times as much.

THEFRINGE · 22/10/2009 11:00

Pointy the 'working poor' have a right to feel shafted. That wasn't the point being made earlier though.