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Original poster

The Tories are gonna get in, it's inevitable do you care? Is there an upside?

447 replies

TheDullWitch · 07/10/2009 17:19

Oh why not have the election NOW. Let the buggers get in, show their true colours, become universally loathed, then get kicked out after one term. Come on, let's get on with it!

OP posts:
honeydew · 07/10/2009 22:31

Just to add that I too agree with socialist ideals but a Labour Government never seems to work.

I looked at Labour's proposal for childcare provision for poorer families and it clearly punishes wealthier parents who work- which is unfair.

They tax and spend, tax and spend and then practically bankrupt us all!

I don't agree with supporting the 'workless' class that have become so prevalent in society now but to punish people/families on average incomes or below as the Tories will is absolutely NOT right or fair.

I don't think either political party is fit to lead, although Cameron would perhaps make a fairly strong leader. I just want to give up and go and live in Norway! which has been voted the best place in the worked to live.

I will have to vote for a different party really, so I feel like a 'floating voter! My DH is and always has been Lib Dem.

thehappyprince · 07/10/2009 22:32

Am I alone in thinking Gordon Brown has been unfairly vilified, it seems he can do nothing without it being branded Stalinist, dithering (an unusual combination), dishonest. Even when he does something truly positive (acting decisively and positively during the banking crisis) he is still vilified. I think it's true that 3 terms is about as long as a government can survive before the electorate turns on it but actually feel genuinely sorry on a human level for the loathing and venom aimed at GB.

RaggedRobin · 07/10/2009 22:33

greyskull: we have NOT "run out of money" because of social spending, although you would think this is the case by the reaction to the economic crisis.

the economy has collapsed because of the complete failure of the ultra free market ideology and constantly pumping credit into the economy in the hope that it will inflate indefinitely. the tories would have had exactly the same approach, so while not blaming them for the current mess, i can't see how they can claim any moral high ground over it.

VeryHungryLennipillar · 07/10/2009 22:36

I think that is a bit unfair. There are plenty of people with reason to be shrill right now. And for many of us things like tax credits are keeping us afloat - certainly are here when DH's business will probably only break even this year - but our employees jobs are safe and they have been paid even if we haven't. A conservative government might be enough to tip us under if we lose tax credits then DH will need other employment, and it isn't just us who will suffer, but 3 other families too . Not that labour staying would be the answer either.

SqueezyCheesyPumpkin · 07/10/2009 22:36

Yes happyprince. I'm not a labour person (or Tory I hasten to add) but on a human level I feel sorry for the man. I don't believe he would ever have gotten a fair crack at the whip.

SomeGuy · 07/10/2009 22:36

greyskull: we have NOT "run out of money" because of social spending, although you would think this is the case by the reaction to the economic crisis.

Actually this government increased has tripled public spending since it came to power.

Lots and lots of money spent during 10+ years of global prosperity, nothing saved. (In fact, with PFI, more and more debt piled up.)

the economy has collapsed because of the complete failure of the ultra free market ideology and constantly pumping credit into the economy in the hope that it will inflate indefinitely

Those would be the policies of the Labour party, I take it. You can't blame the Tories for something they didn't do - they have no control over spending, no control over interest rates, nothing.

SomeGuy · 07/10/2009 22:39

There are plenty of people with reason to be shrill right now

Why?

Based on what happened 30 years ago?

Are we supposed to judge Labour by the winter of discontent?

Banging on about Thatcher and Tebbitt instead of talking about the world as it is now, or will be in 2010 at least, is silly.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 07/10/2009 22:40

what is shrill?

SomeGuy · 07/10/2009 22:44

Are you looking for a definition of the word, or specific posts that are shrill?

seeker · 07/10/2009 22:44

There is no upside. I remember the "80s. THERE IS NO UPSIDE!!!!

honeydew · 07/10/2009 22:45

I have to admit to secretly really quite liking GB He's not the best at PR which has been negative for him but he is at least not 'fake' like Tony B.

He is rather dour and miserable but I quite like that as he doesn't appear insincere or pandering to social pressures or the media to be happy all the time. I've heard a number of reports that which GB is also very affable in person.

I watched him interviewed last week and he wasn't able to get a word in because of some dreadful journalist who just attacked him on every level.

his wife also seems much more genuine than Cherie Blair and they have suffered much personal sadness with the death of their baby.

I would vote for him on a personal basis but am sure Labour have not succeeded for the UK.

I feel that as I only have general knowledge of politics, I must find much more before making a truly informed decision about where my vote should go.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 07/10/2009 22:45

I don't understand the word/term 'shrill'

said · 07/10/2009 22:46

No upsides. RaggedRobin's spot on here. Fucking depressing.

VeryHungryLennipillar · 07/10/2009 22:47

I don't see anyone banging on about Thatcher. We can only judge the Tories on past performance - unless you want to judge them on hearsay and promises? If they were offering us an answer that isn't going to see us even worse off I would be less wary, but on a personal level what matters most to me is DH surviving the recession and education. Neither look like being helped by a Tory government.

DrNortherner · 07/10/2009 22:47

My Dad (god bless him) met Gordon Brown and Tony Blair on many ocassions, prior to either of them being PM and when TB was PM. My Dad always rated Gordon much more saying he was much more intelligent, down to earth and an all round good bloke, TB was just a better face and voice on TV.

I like Gordon and feel that he gets a hard time that he doesn't deserve.

expatinscotland · 07/10/2009 22:48

Lib Dem for me, too.

SomeGuy · 07/10/2009 22:50

Shrill definitions: dictionary.reverso.net/english-cobuild/shrill

  1. A shrill sound is high-pitched and unpleasant.
  1. If you describe a demand, protest, or statement as shrill, you disapprove of it and do not like the strong, forceful way it is said.
RaggedRobin · 07/10/2009 22:51

chuckling a bit at the thought of honeydew arriving in the norwegian utopia to find that their standard of living is so good precisely because of "tax and spend".

ummm... some guy, did you read my post?

"the tories would have had exactly the same approach, so while not blaming them for the current mess, i can't see how they can claim any moral high ground over it."

you have made me go all shrill.

SomeGuy · 07/10/2009 22:55

Did you read mine?

"You can't blame the Tories for something they didn't do - they have no control over spending, no control over interest rates, nothing. "

The Labour party assigned control of interest rates, the primary instrument for controlling inflation, to the Bank of England with a narrow remit to keep CPI below 3%.

This resulted in massive house price inflation, something that the BoE were not allowed to control.

There is no reason to suppose that the Tory approach would have been the same at all.

BobbingForPeachys · 07/10/2009 22:55

DrN I think I agree with you about TB and GB. Sadly public face seems to matter so much.

Why not have the election now?Can't afford to lose money and it'sinevitable as a calimant under the Tories, we dont fit their definition of worthy. Know it willahppen, know I am disposable and family a PITA to society but prefer to delay the crash

smallwhitecat · 07/10/2009 22:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

SqueezyCheesyPumpkin · 07/10/2009 22:58

someguy - this was quite a nice and reasonable discussion.

BobbingForPeachys · 07/10/2009 23:00

Which of course is oyur choice SWC.

I don;t think he is a terrible PM- I do think he protrays himself poorly and is shown by the media as very bd.Clearly media savvy-ness is aprt of being PM, but its not all.

I am constanbtly befuddled by people who expect me toaccept a worse lot for the 'good of the country'. I am not entirely selfish but do ahve some self interest. Of course I won't just happily accept it! Am not stupid.

RaggedRobin · 07/10/2009 23:02

ho ho, i can see why people become shrill with you, someguy, you just run your own parallel discussion. not sure who was discussing interest rates, but it certainly wasn't me.

gerontius · 07/10/2009 23:02

In what way is he "comfortably the worst PM we've ever had"? It's true that things haven't been very good here since he became PM, but that's nothing to do with him - it's happening all over the world.

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