Banning smoking outdoors?

[MrsMerryHenry]

Did anyone else hear about this on R4 (PM programme) this evening? I can't find an article about it anywhere. Is this a serious proposal?

It does make me when smokers complain about infringement of civil liberties over this issue. I don't believe I have ever heard a smoker talk about non-smokers' civil liberties being infringed every time someone lights up. And non-smokers have been putting up with second-hand smoke for about as long as humans have walked the earth. So although a very small part of me feels a wee bit sorry for smokers, that they're being pushed into a corner, the rest of me goes "ROFLROFLROFL it's about time."

Riven, have you asked your neighbour to stand somewhere else so that it doesn't waft into your house.

I'm not being arsy at all. You probably all cheered when the smoking ban came in but what did you expect. That people wouldn't smoke in the street? Well they did and now you are not happy about that.

I'm examining where I do smoke nowadays. If I'm at my front door the smoke isn't wafting into anyone elses house or garden. Very rarely light up walking down the street. I don't huddle in doorways often but I do have a cig sat outside a pub, if people don't like it they have the option to sit indoors is that not reasonable?

Most of the anti people on this thread just want it banned full stop and think we are all selfish and stupid, making it difficult to come up with a reasonable solution.

'In practical terms, this means that many smokers will not be able to leave their houses'.

ROFL. More motivation to give up then. I mean the way smokers talk about giving up, like it akin to travelling to the moon. My father gave up when he had children, my husband gave up when I was pregnant, I mean yes it is hard, but totally possible. It is not fucking rocket science.

pofaced - yes some people will give up easily (my Aunt gave up just like that after 55yrs smoking 60+ a day), it's not that easy for everyone though.

how do you know it was easy for my dad, for my husband? You assume it was because they gave up. why should it be harder for some and easier for others? It is always hard, but always possible. Anything else is an excuse.

Ah, the tolerant society we live in

Certain groups of people tend to smoke more than the average. These groups include people with mental health problems, alcoholics, people from lower socio-economic groups.

They are having terrible trouble with the smoking on NHS property ban in psychiatric institutions, as IIRC something like 75% of patients smoke - and the staff feel that it is not really on to stop people smoking suddenly when they are having extreme psychiatric problems.

People such as alcoholics and those with otehr addicitions (also more likely to smoke) would be marginalised even more.

Lifelong smokers (older people who have managed to avoid dying from smoking thus far) often refuse point blank to even try and stop.

Not everyone in our society is strong minded, or sensible, or shares the same life viewpoint as the majority. If they can't or won't stop, keep them in their houses? I suppose that would keep such "undersirables" off the streets.

"If they can't or won't stop, keep them in their houses?"

Er, no, just don't smoke outside. That's not the same as keeping them confided to their homes.

No one seems overly concerned about poor heroin addicts being marginalised.

I'm interested in how many people are willing to lambast smokers as weak willed or stupid.

Do you feel the same way about obese people, or alcoholics?

Aw those poor victim smokers forced to stop doing something that harms their health and other people's. FFS. Throughout modern history cigarettes have been responsible for so much premature death, so much foetal damage, so many respiratory problems. Non smokers have put up with is since god knows when. And now there are developments to protect people's health and smokers complain 'poor diddums me you are not showing me tolerance'

Banning smoking in, for example, out door eating areas, enforcing the ban outside hospitals, you think this is going to further marginalise alcoholics and those with mental health problems? Because they can't smoke in a pub garden? I disagree. And I think it is obvious that when one tack fails smokers come up with another tack to justify unjustifiable, selfish views.

I don't think smokers are weak willed in the slightest. As I said, it is always hard to give up smoking. It is always possible. Anyone can do it. People with severe mental health problems and alcoholism may have more trouble giving up, but there are plenty of reformed alcoholics out there, and if people got the right treatment for mental health I think cigarettes would not be used as a prop for insufficient care.

I'm not going to get drawn into this as I know my own view and know that most people vehemently disagree with me.

However if you can't smoke in shops/restaurants/bars/workplaces/stations/public transport or outdoors, then the only place left to smoke is in your own home. So if you can't or won't stop smoking, then you can't go out. Obviously most people would try even harder to give up, maybe use patches and things when they had to go to work and so on, but for some, that would not be an option they would be prepared or able to take, so they would have to stay at home.

Not sure where else they're supposed to go?

And please don't tell me that alcohol and obesity don't have an impact on anyone else, as anyone who has had to share a confined space with an obese person or had to walk down the puke-covered streets of London suffers from side effects of that, let alone anyone who pays for the cost of these things on the NHS...

Sardine - they have the patio doors open every 1/2hr in the local psych unit for patients to go outside for a fag

There are lot of factors (some of them scientific, some of them circumstantial) that make quitting any addiction harder for some people than others.

So the alternative is to force your carcinogens onto other people's children, babies? because you won't give up?

The outcome of drinking is quite often the death of someone else, usually violently and suddenly. I admit I'd rather be weed on, but it is rather more likely that I, or someone I know, will be killed or maimed.

You are still assuming that everyone who has given up has found it easy, so that it must be much, much harder for everyone who hasn't given up. how convenient.

Oh it's so silly.

I don't smoke any more but I still have to walk to school with my kids next to a busy road with particulates and fumes that I haven't CHOSEN to inhale. People are quite happy to over look this particular blight on society aren't they? Let's blame all pollution ills on smokers.

If someone is drunk and disorderly, that is illegal.

"enforcing the ban outside hospitals, you think this is going to further marginalise alcoholics and those with mental health problems?

yes I do - especially the latter. You ever been inside a pyschiatric ward? Believe me - forcing some people in those wards to go cold turkey on the nicotine is going to make an awful lot harder for everyone that comes into contact with them in there.

People on this thread just want it banned full stop without thinking about how the hole in the tax revenue is going to be filled. Also there is no evidence that backs up the need to ban smoking outside because of passive smoking.

If all pubs gardens banned it you would complain about people smoking in the car park. If they ban in from the car park you will complain about people smoking outside the car park.

Abouteve - yes, I asked them before we moved in 15 months ago!

Thanks for admitting it isn't a nice thing, I think you are being fairly calm and appreciate being able to talk about it without a full on row.

Next door is still 'considering' moving the shelter...several meetings have been proposed by them and never come about

It seems like I have to fight it quite actively if I want anything to happen, and I am already struggling with the commitment of single motherhood and running a household of wild children...dealing with the eejits next door is just one more unnecessary hassle, but yes, I am going to fight it.

It's just so disgusting, and wafts into the whole garden, not just the front door etc etc. 85% of fag smoke is invisible.

As I said, reducing car pollution is essential. But two wrongs do not make a right. And smoking does not serve another useful purpose, unlike cars.