OMG - Gordon Brown will scrap Nursery Vouchers

[rob1974]

BBC says here that Gordon Brown is going to scrap childcare vouchers:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8279701.stm

We get two lots of vouchers and save about £150 a month. There's no way we'll both be able to keep working if they scrap them.

Well I'm not going to lose sleep over this one as it looks like it's in a 'in the next five years' plan and therefore has probably only got what a 30% chance (if that) of actually happening and also because of course it depends on Labour winning the next election. Today Gordon may have pleased the conference hordes but he's pissed off my entire generation - voted labour in 1997, now have kids or are planning families, trying to buy big enough houses for said family and not happy to have one of the few things we do 'get' taken away and replaced with inadequate childcare provision for the less well off. If you want to improve state provision then improve it - but don't do it in this way which actually makes the situation even more complex than it already is. Also - childcare is (as already mentioned by others) only one of salary sacrifice schemes in operation. Are they really going to stop all of them or is it just pick on childcare day today?

Sign the Petition here

Here is something I googled which seems to indicate that employer supported childcare would include childcare vouchers.

Completely academic as I think Labour are probably now unelectable and I doubt that the Conservatives would cut the voucher scheme.

Oh, good 'un Gordon!

What a plank.

Thank lord my dd will be 7 in 5 years time, I'll just make sure not to have anymore eh...

catchastar - in the (admittedly unlikely) scenario of G.Brown & Co being around to follow this through, you had better hope you don't need holiday care or after school care for your then 7yo DD.

I have signed the petition FWIW

What's the betting they scrap the tax relief entirely in the next budget, saying that they're starting to provide the places now, but it will take 5 years to have enough places?

Sign the petition here
petitions.number10.gov.uk/keepvouchers/

So they're going to replace it with 2 hours a day free childcare for 2 yo of low income families?

So it's likely that this benefit is going to be taken away from working parents to provide childcare for many people who don't actually work at all?

Lots of low income famillies work girlsareloud- the term usually encompasses those on minimum wage or part time incomes, for a start, or indeed it would work as a respite solution to carers (currently soemthing I am having to pay for).

I'm not saying I support the change- I don't really know enough- just that low income does not equate to not working. Plenty of working famillies getting CTC (we're one).

There is the additional difficulty in defining low income and distinguishing this from low disposable income. I'm certainly not classified as low income, but because of high childcare costs and not qualifying for any help such as CTC or WTC, my disposable income is probably as low as someone classified as low income, who will receive the additional help

Donotpress - I know lots of low income families work, that's why I said "to provide childcare for many people who don't work at all?"

It was a question, will this only be used for working people, or will it provide people who don't work with free childcare. Do you know the answer or not?

(and I don't include carers in the bracket of non-working people for the purposes of this question).

I don't, no, I do know how the schemes run by councild for student childcare run,and they require evidence that youa re out, but who knows? there may well be some agenda to get kids out of famillies that have generational unemployment as an issue.

Thanks donot.

I'm worried that this is a policy to remove tax relief from working families to fund some SAHPs putting their children into childcare.

I don't know why I'm worried though, there's very little chance of G BRown being around to see it through.

not sure what good 2hrs a day is going to be for working people anyhow, do you know of any jobs that only require 2 hours a day care for children .

I could be wrong but when a child is living in a very deprived family, those 2 hours of childcare a day can actually make a big difference (in the right type of childcare). However I thought children in those situations were already given this care for free.

I am confused as to how this will help. Saying that it is only my friends who are SAHM's who use their free places for 3 year olds at nursery. Those who work simply cant take their children at those times. I dont understand why this entitlement cant be a voucher mums could use at a private nursery. I understand the reasoning behind 3 year olds going to nursery, that if you have only one income you cant afford to pay for this - but why do some parents get to take their children to a free nursery place whilst they use the time for them (eg housework etc) whereas if you work in reality you have to pay?

Saying that I guess many people in work get lunch breaks etc - but lots dont to make up their hours.

All too confusing - anyone want to move to Sweden or wherever is great?

Hmm,just thinking- I know when I worked in the field we used to refer to surestart nurseries for this sort of care- becuase it does help- is this meant to replace it as Surestart is wound down?

This is a ludicrous decision, both economically and politically.

The current 3 year old 12.5 hours per week provision can be used to subsidise private daycare too so is not only available to SAHMs who take their children to pre-school.

However, it is an allocation per day, rather than per week, which means the only working people who can take full advantage of it are those people who work full time. As before DS2 I worked 3 days per week, I would only have been able to claim 3/5.

The current tax breaks mean that, part time, almost all of my childcare was tax free which was a big incentive, enabler to return to work. If his concern is that 1/3 of claimants are in the higher tax bracket then why not make it only applicable at 20%. Why punish these as well as the OTHER TWO THIRDS of the low rate tax payers.

It is a nonsense to take money from working families of children from babies to 16 to give childcare to 2 year olds.

Even for a SAHM it will be a faff. If you have a child at school 9 til 3:15, or a child at pre-school 9 til 11:30, you now have to add in another session of 9 til 11! It will never work.

It's another example of the state thinking that it is a better judge of who should care for our children than we are.

Actually fruitstick, the allocation is in morning and afternoon sessions of 2 1/2 hours, so when you were working 3 days you would have been able to claim 2 sessions on 2 days and 1 session on the other, just paying for the extra hours.

You might be right. I'm on mat leave at the moment and DS2 is only just eligible so we use 5 days.

It seems to have passed them by that the fact that tax relief are used mainly by the middle/well off is that these are the people can afford to go to work!

I am a graduate and think myself an intelligent girl but I find the whole system of CTC, CB, vouchers and nursery entitlement absolutely baffling! There must be an easier way to administer financial support for working families as well as practical support for low income households.

so do you all really think the tories will help out ordinary working parents????

I doubt it

Nope.

I think a ayear fromnow we will be homeless living in a B&B

Enough to drive you over the edge isn't it?

ssd - not really. I do think though, that part of the problem I have with GB's new idea is how he plans to spend his 'savings'. I think it's robbing peter to pay paul (and in many cases paul won't need to help, as many have pointed out that working parents cannot possibly work around 2 hours free childcare a day). This ignorance has made GB's announcement particularly unpalatable

If they said 'we're taking away higher rate tax relief on childcare vouchers to help save money' - that is much more likely to be acceptable

also I disagree with GB's definition of 'ordinary working parents'. Just because I don't quality for tax credits, I am not an ordinary working parent? I would have thought they should be very glad that I am paying such a lot of tax and that a very small benefit of tax relief on £55 pw should be worth it

Childcare vouchers to be phased out from April 2011 - hardly that far off. And employers can still offer vouchers, they just won't have tax relief - well whoop-de-do, what's the point of them then?

This measure is not designed to reduce the national deficit, I'm not clear why it's even being mentioned, it's just left-wing gesture politics.

Cutting spending on one thing and spending it on something else does not amount to a spending cut.

As for free childcare for 2-year-olds, why? They don't need it. The people that need it are working parents, and working parents can already get tax credits to cover 80% of the cost.

Tax relief on 'good things', such as bicycles (reduces number of people driving) and childcare (increases GDP) should not be scrapped.

Incidentally, this change will go ahead. They will announce it in the pre-budget report and then it will be passed into law in 2010. Doesn't take long.

Once gone, any future governing party is far less likely to bring it back than they would be to simply keep it on the books had it not been scrapped.

Maybe it has more to do with encouraging people (i.e. women) out of the workforce without increasing the unemployment figures.

It was fine for us to dabble in careers while there was near full employment but now some of the men want their jobs back!