suprised there is no thread on this, french close down "jungle"

[2shoes]

suprised as this will affect us
wonder if they will all be allowed over here now.
can we keep taking all these people, considering the goverment is talking about cutting education due to lack of money. it isn't like they are fleeing a war torn country.

saggarmakersbottomknocker thank you, I was

checkout woman at tesco was moaning about them, i said i really felt for them and she told me i need to toughen up

You're welcome 2shoes. We always have to think of the wider picture. Despite the broadness of our news services here (compared to say the US) we don't routinely hear about the immigration problem in say Italy, or Spain.

I've seen myself in southern Spain the huge numbers living rough who have come across the Med (usually in terribly dangerous conditions, having paid their live savings to unscrupulous thugs) and get work picking fruit living in terrible squalor. Most haven't got the money or resources to go further.

Elenio - whilst I dont' agree with what the French are doing, really if they are from Afghanistan, the first EU country they entered was most likely to be Greece or Italy, however because of the illegal immigrant problem that already exists in these countries, they are treated with terrible hostility so they keep moving.

Sorry, 2Shoes. I see what you mean.

As Headfairy stated, it shows that it needs to be tackled properly, this issue.

Not far away from where I live there is a massive assylum seekers hostel. I don't know how many people live there, but we often see them walking back and forth to the bus stop, the children go to the local school (not our school, the one in the next village).

They are the lucky ones. They have a huge old house (I guess it was perhaps a hospital or childrens home) in the middle of large grounds. When I see pictures of the squallor in which the "Jungle" inhabitants live, that we would fight to get out of and they are desperate to stay in. It is heartbreaking.

The "they should have applied for assylum in the first 'safe' country they arrived in" argument is a very convenient one for us in this country isn't it, as it's always fairly unlikely to be the UK that someone fleeing by land or sea from Asia or Africa lands in first?!?

I worked with refugees for a while.
Some of those people have been through things that we can only see dramatised and sanitised on tv.

I had one Afghan student who had seen his whole family killed in front of him: mother, sisters, father, brothers.

One Tajik student who had been imprisoned for making films which spoke out against the Soviet regime. He was tortured daily.

I am disgusted by the attitude of some people, the total and very nearly socially acceptable lack of imagination, education and compassion. I don't think people realise how relatively pampered and privileged we are in this country, the vast majority of us.

That's very sad Prunerz... I can well imagine that if hurling yourself on a moving lorry, hanging on to a wheel arch for maybe hours on end just to get to somewhere safe where perhaps they have one friend to help them is your best option, then the conditions they leave behind must be absolutely terrible.

Another thing to consider when asking why do these people insist on coming here is that English is a very widely spoken language. Someone growing up in Afghanistan is much much more likely to know a few words of English than French or Italian. Therefore they feel they may have a better chance here. Not an unreasonable assumption I think.

If you claim asylum in an EU country and your claim is granted can you then travel freely and settle anywhere in the EU?

I do think it is an issue Europe wide and is something that needs tackling by Europe as a whole.

Maybe if help rather than hinderance was offered for onward transfer to a country where immigrants had family connections then making themslves 'legal' in the first safe country would be more acceptable to them. There would be more control (and I don't just mean for the UK) and small areas of each country wouldn't have to shoulder the burden. Some parts of Spain and the Canaries for example have huge problems with immigration.

Prunerz
That is so sad.

My DH has a favourite expression, I am trying to think of a good translation, "Wir jammern auf sehr hohem Niveau" ...

It basically means that our complaints are made from a position of great privilege.

You are right Headfairy, i am Greek and currently live in Greece. The immigrants are treated appallingly here.
It is complicated here though as our country is in a pretty bad state at the moment (am not by any means comparing it war torn countries) We are very much struggling as a country and i think that immigrants are seen as an extra problem that we cannot handle. This of course does not excuse the way they are treated here.

I have also lived in Italy for a year and racism was pretty rife there too.

I am not sure if there are any statistics available on how many immigrants are in fact in each country in the EU? I would be very surprised if in fact they are 'all in the UK'

MmeLindt has a very wise husband.

Both my parents are immigrants from not particularly scary countries, but at particularly scary times. My dad's parents left fascist Italy in 1939 when my dad was 3, and my mum's parents left Argentina in the 1954 when my mum was 11 due to terrible poverty and political persecution. Neither wanted to leave but had no option. I am very grateful the UK opened their doors to them (actually it was France that first opened it's doors to my mum - but my grandfather had fought for the Free French during the war so he figured they owed him one!)

"genuine refugees should apply for asylum in the country where they entered the EU"

As far as I'm aware that has been the usual practice for decades in and out of Europe.

Detention centers may be horrible, but have you ever been to a refuge camp? Where people are exposed to the bad weather, plenty of illness due to lack of sanitary facilities, hunger, etc? Obviously, it would be worse to go back to a place where some of them could be killed as soon as they set foot back in their country but honestly, if you are fleeing a life threatening situation, Greece doesn't seem, at least to me, an awful place to be.

Why do so many want to come to Britain instead of staying in France? Because in France the police can legally stop anyone they want to ask for their papers. In Britain you can't.

I have noticed that here in Switzeland the police stop and check the papers of black people more than whites. Just the other day the Garde Frontier stopped a black guy, I noticed him showing them his permit so he was obviously legal here, but it must be frustrating.

I have been here a year and have never been stopped by the police or Garde Frontier.

That's one of the biggest reasons I'm against ID cards over here MmeLindt... just an excuse for the members of the police who are racist (and not all are of course) to exercise their bigotry.

Also, in France you need your ID card to work, I think that's the same in lots of other EU countries. Here you can work without an ID card.

will the children ever be rereunited with their parents? heard they were being taken to detention centres far away from each other. makes me feel sick.

"Another thing to consider when asking why do these people insist on coming here is that English is a very widely spoken language. Someone growing up in Afghanistan is much much more likely to know a few words of English than French or Italian. Therefore they feel they may have a better chance here. Not an unreasonable assumption I think."

I had never thought of that, makes a lot of sense.

Why should France or Spain have to have all the refugees? That's not going to be a fair buden on them. Better to even it out.

The rules are the rules, they should apply for asylum where they first enter the EU.
We are a small over crowded island as is it, we can not afford anymore people here, both financially and environmentally, where shall we house them? Who fancies giving up their house or home to let for these poor souls?

What of our children's future? It's hard enough to get social housing or a foot on the ladder to buy now what will it be like when our children are older?

There has to come a time when we say enough is enough before we overstretch our environment, if that's not already been done, then that time is now.

If they did come into the UK, which from the article seems unlikely, it is 150 people.

Yes, what to do with refugees has always been a problem and always will be. However, per the UNHCR

• South Africa is the largest recipient of individual asylum applications in the world
• The countries that are host to the largest number of refugees world wide are Pakistan, Syria and Iran (in descending order)
• 49% are women or children
• 44% are under 18.

What would you do if you were in their situation? Sit around and wait to be killed/raped, or try to find a better life for you and your family?

these people are safe though