has anyone covered the NHS republican slander free healthcare for americans thing today?

[Tortington]

i cant find an existing thread is there one.

i been listenng to radio on the train - talk shows need to comment

I don't think people are actually picketing the US embassy over it, swc, a Twitter campaign does not a revolution make (or Iran would have a new leadership)

Why does it matter? Because it's not nice to be lied about in the press, I suppose? If a British newspaper printed that, say... you could shoot Mexicans on sight in Texas; I imagine there would be some irate responses. And how on earth are Americans to know it's fiction unless someone tells them? see MsFlittersnoop's post above.

I think it's quite refreshing, in this Internet age, that although the lie still speeds around the world, the truth is a lot quicker at getting its boots on.

I received a choose and book appointment for DS. I went online to choose, and when it ticked my choice it said "no appointments available". Then when the day came DS had a fever of 103F. SO I called and asked if we should come and stay home. She said stay home, so we did. Then, I got a letter saying the appintment was cancelled. I called them to ask why. They said I had to call the GP. The GP said I had to call them. I bounced back and forth like a ping pong ball for a while. Finally GP faxed hospital with new request and I got another appointment. What a lot of beaurocracy. This needs improving.

However, I'm not saying th US system is flawless in the paperwork department. I once had knee surgery in Texas and I had fight world war three to get the insurance company to pay for it. It was a real pain in the arse.

But, the care I got. The surgeon I talked to. The quality of the medical treatment itself was better than any UK hospital I hae ever seen. Hospitals in the UK are understaffed and dirty. Not any one individuals fault. More to do with the overall organisation.

Neither system is perfect. But the medical care in the Us has in my experience been better. If I had a partially torn ACL in the UK, I would be fobbed off and told it was not a necessary procedure since I could obvious walk. But, in the US, I was sent off for an MRI and told "we have help you if you want to have this surgery." I prefer the US system, even though I had to pay for it.

I'm not interested in debating the efficiency or otherwise of the NHS, although I would like to point out that anyone can access non-essential elective surgery for a one off payment in the UK provided they have the money. Many people in the UK choose to have private healthcare, but are still free to access the NHS whenever they want.

My objection is the ridiculous lies being peddled about my country.

C&P'd from the article I linked to earlier:

"Defenders of Britain's system point out that the UK spends less per head on healthcare but has a higher life expectancy than the US. The World Health Organisation ranks Britain's healthcare as 18th in the world, while the US is in 37th place."

Some quick Googling also reveals that maternal death rates are 8 per 100,000 in the UK and 13 per 100,000 in the USA (2007 figures). Neo-natal and under-5 death rates are also slightly lower in the UK than the USA.

Same thing happened when Clinton tried to introduce the Health Care Bill. Insurance companies took out prime time ads saying, Do You Want the government to decide whether you live or die...'

There are great things about the NHS; there are great things about some aspects of the American health care system.

Athene is right. There is an obligation for a hospital to treat, which is why Emergency Rooms are clogging up as those who don't have insurance or a primary care system (GP) will go for treatment.

Those WHO data, MrsF, Americans will write off as 'indigents', as if they don't deserve a life.

It is exactly that poor data that means the USA needs reform. Spending twice the UK GDP for a far worse outcome is shameful.

Those who are receiving a concentration of healthcare funding are not necessarily receiving better healthcare as much of what they are paying for is unnecessary tests.

American doctors don't always subscribe to the notion of BRAN - benefit, risk, alternative, nothing to the particular procedure.

I love the NHS. Imperfect, but the mark of a civilised society. Well, working towards being a civilised society..

Why not entitled to Medicaid, as a disabled child normally qualifies, unless the family has a higher income?

I think the thing that I find most saddening about the objections I have read / heard both in the media and indeed on this thread, is that the "American approach"(for want of a better term) is fundamentally very selfish in its approach.

It seems to run along the lines of: So long as I have healthcare, and I have got private medical insurance and I am getting a better system, well frankly lets sod everyone else.

And shock horror that a dying illegal immigrant should need and want medical healthcare. I cannot believe that anyone could be so selfish as to justify not treating a sick person when in need. (Taking on board that even in the US, A&E treatment is given, but not all treatment desperately needed can be gained through A&E, so that's an irrelevant argument).

Yes there are problems with the NHS, but I think one reason why us Brits are so proud of the NHS because it is our selfless belief that we should help others in need. Yes, I willingly pay my taxes for the NHS (even though we have BUPA through DHs work) because I believe as a society we should help each other. I am proud that we have a system that will treat anyone in need, regardless of their ability to pay and I happily pay for that. I would be ashamed to live in a culture that was so selfish that it didn't care enough about the most vulnerable members of its society to be able to provide healthcare for all. It doesn't have to be NHS style, but something should be there. I cannot believe they are even debating that. Maybe debate how it should be delivered, but not whether it should be delivered. Sorry, but if a society doesn't even agree on that then I think it has got its morals all wrong.

The whole point is that the President Obama wants to change the system, so Americans can have access to universal health care. Most Americans have some sort of cover as part of being an employee, and the very poor and elderly have Medicare/medicaid at a very basic level.

It's an interesting point though that whatever one thinks of Medicare/Medicaid, their administration costs are very low, I think about 2 - 3 % rather than a private insurance model which is well over 10%. My figures may be slightly out of date, but there is already a federal program running. Seems logical to boost it up with more resources rather than re inventing the wheel.

I agree with you there... I think that the NHS is far from perfect and has a long way to go, but surely a system that aims to help everyone is more virtuous than a system that helps merely those that can afford it?

I am no socialist(!) and know that the NHS is far from perfect.

But I do think that the mark of a civilised society is that it tries to help its weakest members. I would hate to live somewhere where not having money (or a willing insurer) equalled not as worthy of help.

I will admit that I learned about this from Extreme Makeover: Home Edition (and that I don't know a huge amount about the US system) but an awful lot of the people on that show seem to have insurers who won't cough up for their children's medical treatments because they are congenital and deemed pre-existing. Can you imagine taking your child to hospital for lifesaving treatment and then being handed a bill for hundreds of thousands of pounds? I can't imagine the stress.

I have been very lucky. I have no complaints about my experience of the NHS. With the exception of minor gripes about the slight tattiness of things. By and large my experience has been good, of people doing their best against the odds, who care about their patients.

If anyone is actually interested in what the Republican Party actually does support (as opposed to the rediculous acusations being thrown around MN), I recommend this.

Avaaz are running a petition which is for UK citizens to sign, to be given to US congress, stating that we believe the NHS to be a legitimate and worthwhile system. The American far right are making claims about the NHS including that it is a system that doesn't work and neglects the needy. Can I post the link here? Anyone know? They've reached 15,000 signatories so far, and are trying to reach 50,000. There is also the space to make personal statements about the value of the NHS.

What exactly is this petition meant to do other than feed the British people's need to complain about something.

I think the BRitish hate the American system just as much as American's hate the idea of an NHS.

Chill out. You have no vote. Why would Congress care what you think? Likewise, Gordon Brown probably doesn't care that I don't like him. I can't vote. It is no skin off his back.

If you don't know about Avaaz, and you want to make a difference to the world, I suggest you find out: www.avaaz.org/en/about.php

Bur briefly, Avaaz.org is an independent, not-for-profit global campaigning organization that works to ensure that the views and values of the world's people inform global decision-making. Avaaz campaigns all across the world on many different issues, and they DO make a difference.

Quote from website: "Following the disinformation about international health systems from health reform opponents in the US health debate, Avaaz.org asked members in Canada, the UK, and other countries with national health systems to respond. Within hours, tens of thousands of people signed petitions and are sending in their stories."

And I am chilled, thanks. I just thought if I wanted to try and make a difference, perhaps others might too.