"Breastfeeding is oppressing women" (from The Guardian)

[morningpaper]

Let the breastfeeding rebellion begin

"In the 70s, many women protested that they were shackled to domesticity by the unreasonably high bar set for housework. Now, some say, it's not the vacuum cleaner that's oppressing women, but another sucking sound ..."

But but but but

This is a depressing article.

A British academic wouldn't give her name "because she is concerned about attacks from the pro-breastfeeding lobby"

I also fidn it really annoying when people say "I really tried to breastfeed for six days and it didn't work" - By six days lots of women will be in agony. The message that if you haven't got it cracked by six days then it hasn't worked - is just wrong.

And if there is such enormous pressure to exclusively breastfeed then why are only 3% of mothers still doing it at 5 months?

Yes women will feel guilty if they don't breastfeed. Women have the chance to feel guilty if they don't do a million things that are 'optimal' for their children's health and wellbeing. We can all agree that women need more support in the transition to motherhood, by setting up this monster of a pro-breastfeeding lobby is utterly unhelpful.

Having children BLOWS for women - your fanjo is shot to pieces, your career goes down the shitter, you piss yourself every time you sneeze, you lose your pension rights, your brain turns to mush, you have no social standing, boys stop grinning at your in the street - but BREASTFEEDING IS STILL THE OPTIMAL WAY TO FEED YOUR BABIES. You can't un-do that boring fact. And handing women a bottle isn't going to make everything better.

But breast is best and I do think there should be some, pressure is the wrong word, encouragement? to breastfeed if it is possible.

What I don't get is that formula feeders think we are all sitting in judgement and scowling at them and their bottle fed children. It's just not true, the pressure is internal.

btw (and i realise this is my thrid post in a row so it might look like i'm ranting ) i am not in any way directing my 'get over it' comments to those who are in the middle of the process of learning to love the bottle.

i think it took me a good few months, possibly more, to 'get over' my grief about not bfing and to fold it up and put it in the cupboard marked 'life's disappointments'. i am not saying that at no point in life will i not get it out again and look at it and feel sad. i'm quite sure if my dds bf it will bring up feelings for me, and if they can't or don't want to, more so. stuff of life, innit? if i see a friend or my little sister bfing i feel a wince of 'i wish i could've done that'.

but five years on, and you're the editor of a parenting magazine, ffs, get over it and put your mind to something more positive.

I have no connection to any bf research or journalists. I am replying simply as a parent who read the article and understood what it was saying. I suspect if I had had a different bf experience I might not relate to it. However, that wouldn't make the views in it 'wrong'.
The people in the article were expressing their view, just as you are.

Not all women feel oppressed, but some do, and surely that should be recognised and an attempt made to change it. As I said before, and what we are agreed on, is that means more support. We don't need more 'campaigns', we need grass-roots, sitting-in-your-front-room support

I live in an area where bf rates are high, and so anecdotally are the levels of women who feel bad once they stop feeding (whenever that is), or who feel worried about going to M&B groups with a bottle.

I tend to find Aitch's argument the more convincing here

The fact is that breastfeeding is optimal/normal/appropriate. Of course the language used for any other form of feeding is going to be necessarily 'sub-optimal'. That's the nature of the beast. But there is a long way from necessary 'sub-optimal' language and inflammatory talk of 'poison'.

The cultural pressure cannot be, overall, one to breastfeed, when the rates are so incredibly low. It's a counter-intuitive argument.

oh thank god there were other posts inbetween so i don't look quite so nutso.

yyy molesy, the posters have an impact, but mostly imo on the midwives who take in that message but haven't enough training or time to actually help it to happen.

I haven't read the article (can't be arsed) but I found the opposite - from family, my mother & sister especially - about why I was bothering to persevere with bf when I could give a bottle

I carried on bf until dd was 2 , in secret because my family were actually disgusted that I should be carrying on for so long, luckily my dp was supportive

Canterbury: FYI, I think there IS support in some areas. In my area, Health Visitors and midwvies have received training in helping and supporting mothers who are formula feeding.

I can't find the specific thread, but I have seen formula milk referred to as poison here on mumsnet, and I have also seen people who say that anyone who formula feeds is lazy and doesn't care for their child.

However, there will be extreme views everywhere, and this is a topic that provokes strong feelings.

I tried and failed to breastfeed three times. Each time I believe that my failure contributed to my developing post natal depression. But, and it is a big but, I never felt criticised or looked down on by anyone because I was formula feeding. The pressure came from inside my own head - I was (and still am) the one who called me a failure.

Nowadays the sting has gone from the memory. I have three sturdy, healthy, stroppy, untidy, infuriating, loveable, handsome boys and I have found plenty of other things to blame myself for, and parenting failings with which to tax myself.

I do still have depression, and in hindsight it seems clear to me that my PND came mainly from my tendency to depression rather than from my breastfeeding problems.

stayingsunny: There are probably - what? - 5 million posts on Mumsnet about formula. I'm not surprised that they are not all balanced. I'm not surprised that some of them don't suggest that formala is the devil's jism to be honest. That's a lot of posts, encapsulating the feelings of a lot of anonymous people, some of whom may be bonnkers.

That is very far away from saying "It has become common for mothers to refer to formula as "poison""

I have found plenty of other things to blame myself for, and parenting failings with which to tax myself.

totally agree

perhaps Aitch should rent out some space for us all in her Cupboard of Disappointments? (I don't suppose my vagina was anywhere in there? Maybe at the back, a bit dusty??)

God. This debate (not on this thread, but in the public arena) is so fucked up.

They should abandon the "Breast is best" campaign. No, breast is not best. It is normal. There aren't uber-fit and freakily healthy breastfed people walking around, because breastfeeding is not a super-food. It is biologically normal food, perfectly suited for an infant.

Tryharder: I disagree that we - as a society - are not seeing the effects of several generations of formula feeding. Who is to say that - among the many other factors at work (e.g. availability of poor quality food, etc.) - the fact that the majority (I believe) of the past few generations were formula fed is not, in some part (obviously not the whole picture), to blame for the current obesity epidemic? (Disclaimer: obviously b-fed people get fat too if they overeat. Duh. But as a statistical likelihood across the population,
f-feeding is linked to obesity).

Instead, they should adopt a "Formula is biologically and nutrionally abnormal and sub-optimal" campaign.

I love all your disclaimers in that pargraph Penthesileia

You sound like an anglican

"I live in an area where bf rates are high, and so anecdotally are the levels of women who feel bad once they stop feeding (whenever that is), or who feel worried about going to M&B groups with a bottle."

i can't really get my head round that, tbh. we shouldn't object to these flimsy ringaround articles because in the very few areas in this country where bfing rates are high there are a few women who feel bad when they stop feeding? not a priority, let's worry about them once bfing rates are high everywhere.

what you are right about, i suspect, is that this is a load of bourgeois bfing angst reported by a middle-class middle-brow paper, and completely fails to represent the normal experience, which is that something like 80 or 90% women give bfing a try and don't get a chance to continue due, as you say, to a lack of support.

let's hear more about that massive majority, rather than about these whinging twats who'd like everyone to tiptoe around their feelings five years later. because while she's PART of that majority, she's completely blaming the wrong people for her lack of success. as is the article, imo.

well I basically agree with everyone here

which is reassuring

I think that there is an enourmous pressure to breastfeed your baby and I found it very hard and quite oppressive at first whilst trying to get it established.
I felt less oppressed as time went on and would have felt much more oppressed by bottle regime. Lets face it- of course having kids impacts on women biologically, emotionally and socially. It dosn't really blow though if you see being a mum as a worthy proffession which it is. I think mabe society is coming round to the fact that being a mum is an important job- slowly.

Stayingsunnygirl: I thought your post was great btw. (I sounded like I jumped on your first line. Which I did a bit)

I find it interesting that class is not mentioned in that article when I reckon its claims might be true of a certain section of the middle class, but not the population as a whole. Well, it is the Guardian, I suppose ...

rofl at penthesilesia's slogan. Almost as good as that ancient AUT campaign: 'rectify the anomaly'

agreed, penth. bfing is the norm. ('hey norm!' [cheers])

lol at my cupboard of disappointments. harry potter gets to see that when he hits middle age.

Harry Potter hitting middle age will be IN my Cupboard of Disppointments...

"let's hear more about that massive majority, rather than about these whinging twats who'd like everyone to tiptoe around their feelings five years later. because while she's PART of that majority, she's completely blaming the wrong people for her lack of success. as is the article, imo." exactly aitch. i didnt fail at bf, the bf-ing support failed me. i dont feel guilty about it (anymore) but i do try to help other new mums bf if they wish to. change the system, make it work better, don't blame other faceless people for your own feelings.

I agree, Molesworth, class is an issue, my )very working class) family wouldn't even consider bf as an option

erm...

does this vagina of disenchantment belong to you?

amen, lissie.

No that one's too small