"Breastfeeding is oppressing women" (from The Guardian)

[morningpaper]

Let the breastfeeding rebellion begin

"In the 70s, many women protested that they were shackled to domesticity by the unreasonably high bar set for housework. Now, some say, it's not the vacuum cleaner that's oppressing women, but another sucking sound ..."

But but but but

This is a depressing article.

A British academic wouldn't give her name "because she is concerned about attacks from the pro-breastfeeding lobby"

I also fidn it really annoying when people say "I really tried to breastfeed for six days and it didn't work" - By six days lots of women will be in agony. The message that if you haven't got it cracked by six days then it hasn't worked - is just wrong.

And if there is such enormous pressure to exclusively breastfeed then why are only 3% of mothers still doing it at 5 months?

Yes women will feel guilty if they don't breastfeed. Women have the chance to feel guilty if they don't do a million things that are 'optimal' for their children's health and wellbeing. We can all agree that women need more support in the transition to motherhood, by setting up this monster of a pro-breastfeeding lobby is utterly unhelpful.

Having children BLOWS for women - your fanjo is shot to pieces, your career goes down the shitter, you piss yourself every time you sneeze, you lose your pension rights, your brain turns to mush, you have no social standing, boys stop grinning at your in the street - but BREASTFEEDING IS STILL THE OPTIMAL WAY TO FEED YOUR BABIES. You can't un-do that boring fact. And handing women a bottle isn't going to make everything better.

In breastfeeding discussions it often comes up that it would be easier for women to make (and stick to) the decision to breasfeed if it was seen as the norm.

Well it was my norm. With about two exceptions every woman I knew breastfed their children, including my mother and her mother. I grew up surrounded by aunties breastfeeding in our kitchen, including one who fed her son until he was 3 or 4.

It never occurred to me that I would for anything else. "Breast is best" passed me by as I didn't pay any attention to any pressure.

I had a very tough time at the start - I had an emcs and that restricted my movement enormously, dd couldn't latch on, my nipples were in ribbons and my breasts were very engorged.

I think that if bottle feeding had been my comfort zone, what i was familiar with then I would have gratefully retreated there. But it was alien to me and so I barely considered it.

DH says he has never seen anyone so determined to do anything - I called every helpline, spoke to my aunties and friends, got (brilliant, sanity saving) advice and support on mumsnet, asked the hospital bf counsellor to visit me at home (which, to her great credit she did, on her own time). I cried my eyes out regularly but I never came close to giving up. And eventually things got better and I breastfed dd until nearly 15 months.

But things might have gone differently and I might have reached my limit and given up. I would have felt like shit, no doubt about it. I put myself under tremendous pressure because I felt it was important, not because of what I'd been told but because of the "breastfeeding lobby" that was all the women I knew who'd just done it. Experience told me that this was how it was done and I wanted to do it too.

Was my singlemindedness about it good or bad? I certainly think it played a big part in my eventually managing to crack it.

I wonder if there is any way we can really increase feeding rates without normalizing breastfeeding in a way that will make it emotionally harder for those who can't manage it.

I agree that people need to deal with disappointments, but maybe it is quite normal to be very sad if you don't get the breastfeeding relationship you were expecting. Should the support that is gradually being put in place for women also include support for people who are disappointed so it doesn't have a major impact on them, and maybe so they'll feel more positive if they'd like to try again?

By the way I ff fed my dd, not out of choice but because I had to, I did manage to bf her for 2 weeks but did not get the support when i was having difficulties and milk dried up. I did like the freedom that it gave, i could leave my dd with my DH or her godmother while i was ill or wanted time to myself. Now onto my point.

IMO when you choose to have a baby you have to put them first before yourself and do your best, and breastmilk over artifical chemicals is come on admit it better. What is 1-2 years of your childs life to ensure that they have the best start in life, it is not oppression at all. Given the chance I would have preferred to bf anyday over formuala even though I could leave dd with people and go out.

WFHIT, it can be applied to any of the more emotive things around childrearing. As I said before, the childcare one is particularly pertinent to my own situation and hearing "Oh, well, I chose to give up work and stay at home with my children" makes me think "Well, bully for you" in my less charitable moments. And if it's said with any smidgen of sneer that what I'm doing is somehow LESS than what they've "chosen" - well,

But it can be applied to drugs in childbirth, c-section or no, bf/ff - and how it's talked about it crucial.

It can be very hard to talk about a positive birth/bf experience without the unsaid stuff being louder than what's actually said - which is why I've tied myself in knots on here posting with caveats all over the place in the past. But it's important to, because otherwise all that's spoken about is the negative stuff, for fear of seeming "smug" or "judgemental".

I do think not enough is spoken about what bf is like beyond the first few days/weeks - women do tend to get the impression that the establishing stage is all that there is, so it's frequent feeds and sore nipples a-go-go for as long as bfing continues - and OK, some women will have an element of discomfort and some babies will want to feed frequently - but not all babies will and not all women will find it painful forever. It's hard to post on a thread where someone's detailed her dreadful experience with "it doesn't have to be like that, mine was this" without getting "well, bully for you" as a response - and rightly so, sometimes, depending how it's done!

Anyway, I think Baz Lurhmann's take on it is pretty spot-on, in fact:

"What ever you do, don?t congratulate yourself too much or berate yourself either. Your choices are half chance, so are everybody else?s."

In Scandi countries, where it is assumed you will breastfeed, and everyone - almost literally everyone - does, the few people who don't do it for long get sympathy and understanding (I am told).

It is not assumed 'they really didn't want to' or 'they didn't try hard enough'.

People say 'what a shame for you!'

It's acknowledged that the mum, and the baby, have missed out on something worthwhile.

These responses ('what a shame!') are only able to be articulated in a society where breastfeeding truly is the norm, where women who hit problems (and sore nipples and worries about supply are common) know they will get good help and knowledgeable input.

To say, 'what a shame!' to someone who is not breastfeeding in the UK would be tactless - and it would be interpreted by some as pressure.

But when someone wants to breastfeed, and then doesn't, well....it is a shame, a real shame.

A really bf-friendly country would enable all mothers and babies to breastfeed, even the ones who are not that keen. Skidoodle, you had to be enormously determined to breastfeed. It shouldnt be like that. Mothers who are not that bothered either way should manage it, too

I didn't BF DS1 because after 10 days of trying he never latched on once. I was devestated at the time but 8 years later I can say I tried my best and the reason BF didn't work out was because the MWs were truly crap. There was no support. I have stopped beating myself up for it.

There is a lot of pressure to BF up until you have your baby. Then the NHS is pretty crap at helping women master the craft of BF.

Anyway, I BF DS2 for over a year, no problems whatsoever.

With these two contrasting experiences I can say that small babies are oppressive. Babies need fed little and often the first 6 weeks whether they are bottle or breastfed. Bottlefed babies do not sleep any better. No one ever commented about my feeding methods.

The idea that breastfeeding is oppressive is madness
Article is a load of guff

The thing is Tiktok, over there in those countries they probably have much better support available to mothers to bf compared to over here. Here in the UK they try and promote bf but if things dont go right, do not have the support or resources to help women,surely they have to get those right first in order to promote bf. Those women who are finding it difficult to bf will give up and go onto formula.

CrackFox - totally agree with you "small babies are oppressive". Went to college with the author of this article, and know she doesn't have her own kids, so she has no idea of how oppressive babies are however you get food into them. (by the way, she's a very nice person! just agree its a sh*t article that doesn't actually make any real point or sense)

Also the bit about formula being poison - the only time I've ever heard the two words used in the same sentence was when I was talking to a friend who was struggling with BF, baby losing weight, and totally miserable and talking about supplementing and how she couldn't do it, and I said 'formula ISN'T poison you know'! And I BF for a year, so I naturally look down my nose and won't support any mother who can't/doesn't want to BF

I found BF really really painful for the first few weeks, what with DD chomping away on my nipple for hours per day.
I also had painful "let down". Ho hum. I persevered and once the toe curling agony had abated it became really easy...then I discovered DD would not take a bottle so I was stuck with her on my boob until she was weened.
Once that was on the way I cut the BF to morning and night, then the night and packed up when she was 3 and I got tired of the whole thing. By that time she was drinking out of a cup, but she never ever drank cows milk and still doesn't so it made sense for me to feed her so she got her calcium. Now I just shove cheese and yoghurt down her!!!!

I wish I had known beforehand how limiting it is having to have th baby with you so much due to feeding, and you can't have a dya away from them.

On the other hand I missed all the bottle rinsing and sterilising stuff.

If I did it again I would try to bottle feed expressed milk for one of the feeds to give myself a break.

And humans are MAMMALS which mean we bear live young and feed them with our own internally generated milk. Why human society has decided it is better to steal milk off other mammals rather than use their own baffles me.
However, we are fortunate, if another mammal gives birth and fails to produce milk their babies die, we have alternatives, so our babies survive.

I also totally agree that a society which allows girls to show their boobs to get men excited but finds breastfeeding repulsive/distasteful is still a seriously male dominated culture and we should fight against that.

By the way whatever happened to wet nurses? One of those might go someway to helping to empower women (especially at the moment as I'm struggling to get the little blighter DD2 to take a bottle of EBM).

Wetnurses were traditionally used so that the mother would become fertile sooner - and give birth again quicker.

Argh. Scrap that idea. I never said a word.

piglet, you say "The thing is Tiktok, over there in those countries they probably have much better support available to mothers to bf compared to over here."

I know, piglet....really, I know

Mothers here are let down by a ridiculous set of attitudes that basically say breastfeeding is rude/exhibitionist/indulgent plus a workforce in the health service that has poor support and knowledge, and within which has individuals who share those attitudes.

None of the Scandinavian countries has ever been a bottle feeding society*, so midwives and others have not become de-skilled. Unlike here.

• disbelieve all you read about Norway going from being formula feeding to breastfeeding...it never happened. Norway never had a less than 95 per cent plus initiation rate. Their continuation rates did fall in the late 60s and early 70s, at about 3 mths....that's what they turned round, but of course it was pretty easy because everyone still expected to breastfeed.

Not sure what defines a campaign, but my midwife wears a 'breast if best' thing around her neck that holds her midwife identification.

Although I needed help/support, feel lucky in that I was able to ask my own mother for guidance (as I was b/f)

Would be interesting to see in Scandinavian countries where the b/fing rate is higher, who new moms turn to for advice? If it is one's own mother/sister, then this would mean that women are having difficulties asking for help, or embarrassed.

ilove - if your midwife has something that actually says 'breast is best' then this must be some local campaign. There is no national campaign that uses these words and there never has been (AFAIK).

Scandinavian women do have difficulties breastfeeding. But they have plenty of sources of help, inc HCPs, their own friends and family and mother-support organisations. Asking your mum is fine - why would this mean women 'are having difficulties asking for help'?

But tiktok I never felt that determined. I was just calling everyone I knew well that might be able to help me with something I just felt I would get the hang of. Looking back I was a bit crazed, but that was just hormones and lack of sleep.

As baz luhrman would no doubt notice, I was just lucky that there were a lot of them, and because there were one of them had had similar post-cs issues and could really help. Plus I got a lot of encouragement.

If everyone had that network behind them (and a good bf counsellor) being as determined as I was would be unremarkable for people who struggled at the start.

ps thank you. You were one of the people who helped.

hunkermunker mentions how everyone knows how hard the beginning is and not the rest. Well I only really saw well-established breastfeeding and all the advantages. I didn't know about the start. It wasn't until I came calling that I heard that most of the people I knew had struggled a bit to begin with. It was comforting to feel I was not failing in some spectacular way (which tbh is how the hospital midwives made me feel).

I do remember saying to DH one night "when she's older I want to have portable milk". That really kept me going (I know all milk is portable btw)

Its all personal choice. I bf all my kids because I wanted to and luckily after a shaky start it was ok. so .. whats the deal.. My sister in law bottle fed.. so.. thats her choice.. why dont people just keep their bloody noses out of others business.

Like abortion...oooh.. if you wouldnt have one then dont, but if someonr else does then thats their choice isnt it.. people should do what they feel comfertable with and mind their own feking business about other peoples choices..

And if some silly woman is moaning about how guilty she was made to feel not breastfeeding, then get a bloody life love..grow up..

there are breast is best posters up in our local hospital. i used to want to cross out best and write in NORMAL.

I knew of a collegue from Denmark, taking to her they seem have none of the hangups over their bodies like we do and are really open so is really easy to bf in public. that would worry me if i was successful in bf, doing it in public and trying to discreet.

I think it's really difficult for new mums to find out that what they are going through is normal - how can this much pain, this much time taken and a baby not putting weight on be normal! It doesn't help that new mums aren't 'out there' to be seen much - too much struggling with pain and continuously feeding babies I guess.

I was determined to succeed breastfeeding - I have no idea where that determination come from - it certainly wasn't society or a campaigne - I knew no one with a baby! It was totally internal. Looking back I think it was slightly mad, but presumably that was hormones and my body making me determined in some way.

I would have been devastated if I'd had to stop. But that would have been internally generated devastation as well. No one, not even the other middle-class mums in my NCT group ever showed the slightest hint of criticism to the bottle-feeders amongst us.

I really think people who think there is some organised breast-feeding lobby are projecting their internal feelings onto external events. The way you do when it seems like the world is against you!

Why are women so obsessed with what other women want to feed their babies. Surely just be happy with your choice!
I'm pro choice, do want is right for you and your baby...
If you want breastfeed fine, if you want to feed formula fine. If you and your baby are doing well with your decision, well bloody done you!
FFs people warble on about this endlessly. How a child is fed in the first 2 years of their life is far from the most important parenting decision for a child. Get over it! This debate is seriously overblown imo.

I have read Hanna Rosins article mentioned in the Guardian piece and agreed with a lot of what she said the title though was unecessarily inflammatory.

I know that most of this thread has focused on pressure on women to breastfeed and guilt over formula feeding. Without wanting to cut across that in any way or undermine the stories of difficulties people have had. I just want to offer a postive viewpoint.

I don't feel oppressed by breastfeeding. I feel totally liberated by it!

I can go anywhere, at the drop of a hat, with a few nappies, some wipes and a couple of muslins (well, and maybe a spare vest for poo explosions!).

I can feed DD in the middle of the night without getting out of bed (or sometimes even opening both eyes fully) - her crib is right by my bed.

No one, anywhere, has ever made me feel awkward about feeding. I do it anywhere and everywhere (admittedly live in a pretty nappy valley bit of London).

I rarely sterlise (dummies and the odd bottle for EBM) and I don't have to worry about storage.

I have had a few oversupply issues, and sore nipples at the start, but otherwise things have been great!

Ok, so we haven't cracked taking a bottle of EBM yet, but I can live with it if we need to go straight to cups (as I did as a baby). I'm thinking of trying to keep BFing up to a year and not having to faff with formula at all (disclaimer: nothing wrong with it, I don't think it's 'poison'. I am, however, lazy, and it seems complicated!)

I know that this isn't the story with everyone. But in case people out there are thinking of breast feeding for the first time, I thought that it would be good for there to be a really positive experience on here amongst the others. Bit like hearing about 'nice' labours...

All I'm suggesting is that when b/fing is the norm, like a lot of things, it's in the culture, so asking a professional can put it on a different level, that's all. I'm more comfortable asking my mom for informal advice than asking a HCP (although she's a doctor, but that's not the point; she's my mom )

aitch -- those posters of 'breast is best' with those women sitting up laughing....

I have met the breastfeeding lobby (well I know one smug woman doesn't make a lobby but....)
My dd was born with cleft lip & palate and couldn't breastfeed as she couldn't suck. I expressed bm for her and assisted bottle fed. Days after her first surgery I was feeding her while out shopping and a woman with a toddler walked by and said loudly "Well that isn't how I fed you at that age!" Toddler replies "I had milk from Mummy's boobies!"
Which made me think she must go about doing this rather a lot.
dh (rightly) held me back before I ran after her shaking the bottle shouting "it is breastmilk!!! Be grateful your child didn't have these problems!!" So I sat and seethed.
Makes me wonder what issues she must have if she thinks going about making hormonal new mothers feel bad about themselves is acceptable.
I think the injustice of it all just got to me. I really wanted to bf, and did the best I could. It still gets to me now even though it is nearly 2 years ago. I know I should get over it, but every now and then I get a bit sad I couldn't bf, and a bit cross I never got the chance to set people straight!
I know most of it comes from inside, but there is the odd person out there judging (although it must take up an awful amount of her time...)