"Breastfeeding is oppressing women" (from The Guardian)

[morningpaper]

Let the breastfeeding rebellion begin

"In the 70s, many women protested that they were shackled to domesticity by the unreasonably high bar set for housework. Now, some say, it's not the vacuum cleaner that's oppressing women, but another sucking sound ..."

But but but but

This is a depressing article.

A British academic wouldn't give her name "because she is concerned about attacks from the pro-breastfeeding lobby"

I also fidn it really annoying when people say "I really tried to breastfeed for six days and it didn't work" - By six days lots of women will be in agony. The message that if you haven't got it cracked by six days then it hasn't worked - is just wrong.

And if there is such enormous pressure to exclusively breastfeed then why are only 3% of mothers still doing it at 5 months?

Yes women will feel guilty if they don't breastfeed. Women have the chance to feel guilty if they don't do a million things that are 'optimal' for their children's health and wellbeing. We can all agree that women need more support in the transition to motherhood, by setting up this monster of a pro-breastfeeding lobby is utterly unhelpful.

Having children BLOWS for women - your fanjo is shot to pieces, your career goes down the shitter, you piss yourself every time you sneeze, you lose your pension rights, your brain turns to mush, you have no social standing, boys stop grinning at your in the street - but BREASTFEEDING IS STILL THE OPTIMAL WAY TO FEED YOUR BABIES. You can't un-do that boring fact. And handing women a bottle isn't going to make everything better.

Lenin -- you're in a minority

Are you having the baby soon?

"'grief and helplessness' ABOUT BF. sorry thats just ridiculous and totally self indulgent.."

"OF COURSE breastfeeding doesnt always go as planned.. nor does life.. deal with it"

I've just picked a couple of bits out of your posts, thebody, that (imo!) show a huge lack of empathy and commonsense. I particularly like the "deal with it" comment, it's so black and white.

i forgot to add that dd2 was EXCLUSIVELY breastfed for one whole year never mind 6 MO'S she didn't like solids and refused them completely. despite this she was a chubby , contented baby who met her developmental milestones fairly early and was growing steadily at the 75th centile.

with dd1, i constantly felt annoyed that in order to feed my baby i was reliant on highly commercialised products (was told by HV to give baby rusks and solids at 4 mos as was huge baby and by mum to give jars etc, learnt my lesson by dd2's birth!), I knew deep inside me this wasn't the right way for me. with dd2 she went straight onto my home made food, never had to spend an extra penny on feeding her, thats financial liberation for you!!

... oh and there's nothing quite as liberating as having your pre pregnancy figure back in 10 weeks and getting straight into your size 8 jeans ,which i put all down to bfeeding, and stayed that way until she was weaned, despite eating loads of chocolate.

yes, i'm smug.

arf at 'talk to the hand' thebody. especially with the kiss.

you do seem to be backtracking somewhat... is this a change of heart?

HerBeatitude Mon 20-Jul-09 17:10:06 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

?if I had only been prepared to listen more humbly to the perfectly competent HVs and doctors who kept telling me that dd was losing weight and that this was bad, I would not have been putting her at risk.?

"Cory perhaps if more HV?s and doctors were far more competent in the area of breastfeeding, you would have trusted them more when they strayed into that area?"

But HerBeatitude, I had never actually met an incompetent health visitor (in fact, I don't think I ever have); I had no experience of this whatsoever.

Did anyone else read the article in the Times today, about how the benefits of breastfeeding have been over hyped and the science doesn't back uphalf the claims? I thought it was interesting that the DoH / NHS and WHO would spend so much money promoting something that isn't fully backed up by appropriate research. I say this as a mum who breastfed DC1 and is currently feeding (and enjoying doing so) DD2...

'Something like (off top of head) 76 per cent of UK women initiate bf.
I think about 1-2 per cent are still excl bf at 6 mths.
About a third of the people who start have stopped completely by 2 weeks - biggest drop in bf happens when mothers are in closest touch with the health services, go figure.' Tiktok

Aren't these figures insane! I can almost understand the 2 week drop - which I think is due in a large part to noone EVER mentioning how hard bf will be in the first few weeks, but what a drop after 6 months! However, I know a number of people who saw bf as a chore and kept going until 6 months to the day, breathed a huge sigh of relief and then then got the formula out. I also know a good number of people (mostly women actually) who think that bf a child past 6 months is wierd and a bit gross.

Perhaps if we all got better (more realistic) information at the antenatal stage, and then improved HV/Midwife support this may have an effect on the 2 week drop, but I think the 6 week fall-off is more to do with the perception of ourselves, society, family and friends.

I had to fight to BF both my children. I had 2 CS with GA.
Because of this, I desperately wanted to BF as their birth had not been natural, so BF was the one thing I could do that was the most natural thing ever.
Also DD was conceived artificially so BF was even more important to me.
I did struggle with my supply, I sought and received professional advice, I used Lact-aids for a few weeks. I also had to fight against people around me, but I have NEVER felt so strong about something in my life.
I mixed-fed dd for 16 months and am now bf ds.

Far from being oppressive, BF is the BEST thing I ever did in my life. And I had a pretty eventful life.

LOL Cory, at never having met an incompetetn HV. I'm not suggesting that HV's are incompetent, just that the medical professionals who come into contact with mothers - paediatricians, midwives, HV's and GP's - are not competent in the area of breastfeeding - the figures prove that.

I do find it quite distressing that 'movements' that developed within feminism of the '70s onwards ie NCT and generally empowering women viz a viz childbirth and more openness, acceptability and support about breastfeeding can so easily turn into sticks for women to beat themselves up with and a sense that they 'didn't get it right' if one's body doesn't follow the party line, as it were. Birth and early feeding experiences come in all shapes and sizes and most of us really do our best with whatever hand we're dealt (as pps say).

sherazade - Wow! I'm so impressed that you came through what sounds like a frightful experience to bf your DD2! Kudos to you! Totally agree with your description of bf-ing, btw. And completely with you on the chocolate front. I know that this isn't the case for all bf-ing mothers, but IME, I've been able to eat cake and chocolate twice daily most days , without putting on an oz!! OMG - it's frickin' fabulous. Actually, I'm selfishly dreading the end of bf-ing for this reason (so yes, some people do bf for selfish reasons!!! ).

On a less selfish note, my DD (13mo) has been unwell the past few days, and all she's wanted to do is sleep and bf and cuddle. She's not eaten much solids at all. I don't know where we'd be without the bf, TBH.

mumofeve - it's 1-2% who are still exclusively breastfeeding at six months, not who are still breastfeeding. Anyone who starts solids early wouldn't be in those figures. Still very low though.

It's really sad that less wise, but nonetheless well-meaning, supporters of breastfeeding have made exaggerated claims about the scientific "benefits" of breastfeeding, which lead to seemingly accurate rebuttals like the articles in The Times and The Daily Mail. Really it's all a matter of skewed perspective.

That's what I meant earlier on in this thread when I said this debate was fucked up. We shouldn't be talking about the benefits of breastfeeding in such Holy Grail terms. Breastfeeding is, or rather should be, "the norm". The health consequences which follow from it should be considered the nutritional and biological normality, rather than a "benefit" (e.g. evolutionarily speaking, we ought all - were we all to be/ have been breastfed - statistically to enjoy lower rates of, say, breast cancer than is currently the case, etc.). E.g. the IQ thing. Breastfed children are not - as a statistical average across the population - 7 points higher. They are normal. Flip the statistic to get the real picture.

Rather, we should be talking about the risks of formula feeding to later health, etc. - however statistically neglible in the Western World (this is not to dismiss the CATASTROPHE that is formula feeding in the developing world ).

However, given the money to be made by formula companies out of infant nutrition, I doubt this is going to happen any time soon.

Ah, Tik, think I can account for the drop of b/fing when in contact with HCP. When DD and DS both had a check at 12 months (before the MMR) there is a form in the red book that asks whether still being b/f'ed. In both instances, the H/V took the form and ticked, 'no' -- I said that actually I was still b/fing, but was assured in that patronizing tone, that no one actually bothered looking at the 'silly form'

So, I was b/fing, but was counted as not.

I am 36 weeks pregnant with my first child and asked the midwife about breastfeeding fairly early on. I asked about pain or discomfort that I may feel. This is something that friends of mine have discussed with me and I wanted to have an honest viewpoint on it. I intend to breastfeed and will do my absolute best to do so. My midwife (usually a lovely supportive women) said in response: "well, put it this way, some women will always find an excuse not to breastfeed". I found this completely off-putting as I had never said that I did not want to, I just wanted to be informed about drawbacks or issues that I may experience. It seems that they really want to shove it down your throat (so to speak!), and are unwilling to discuss drawbacks. I also found this in antenatal classes.

"Ah, Tik, think I can account for the drop of b/fing when in contact with HCP. When DD and DS both had a check at 12 months (before the MMR) there is a form in the red book that asks whether still being b/f'ed. In both instances, the H/V took the form and ticked, 'no' -- I said that actually I was still b/fing"

ilovemydog, that happened to me, too! At about 13 months just before DD's MMR, same as you. I said 'Actually, I am still breastfeeding' and she said 'Oh, are you?', looked at me strangely (in the manner of a person looking at a woman who is feeding her baby neat olive oil or grass) and didn't change the tick. I was asked if I was still breastfeeding at my six week check but never again.

for babyball - how knows this might help? one top tip given from a friend of mine who recently had twins was to get a number of a good breastfeeding counsellor

Good luck!

[]

oops - hopefully this works, and I have posted the right link - if so maybe tiktok or aicth2oh can comment if it is still suitable and up to date for babyball?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkfR9xlQFi4

jenster, why would one newspaper article make you think the DH etc are wasting money?

One political researcher (Joan Wolf) writes a book which points up that not all the research on bf is as robust as cause-and-effect and proof (though there is no research that says formula gives better health outcomes, and no one, not even JW, disputes that human milk is the physiological norm and that without it, baby humans are at risk of a range of infections at the very least); a reporter asks a leading paediatric researcher, and he says that obesity and allergy research is not as strong as the very strong infections research, or as strong as the breast cancer research. He's right.

It doesn't amount to very much.

It's one article.

One political researcher.

Against a whole raft of other people and other research.

Sorry, pinkfizzle....not a very good video. There are many better ones. The lactation consultant's hands are all over the place.

The free dvd from Best Beginnings

www.bestbeginnings.info/video is much better, and UK based, too.

thanks tiktok

HerBeatitude Mon 20-Jul-09 21:03:38 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

"LOL Cory, at never having met an incompetetn HV. I'm not suggesting that HV's are incompetent, just that the medical professionals who come into contact with mothers - paediatricians, midwives, HV's and GP's - are not competent in the area of breastfeeding - the figures prove that."

Why do you have to laugh at that? Obviously, most of us are only going to meet a limited number of HVs, primarily those that work in our own area. It's not going to be a statistically accurate sample, any more than any experiences you may have had. What I am saying is that I made assumptions that I had no reason to make. You seem set on blaming my HVs, whatever I tell you about them.

My local area happened to be one that was extremely committed to breastfeeding, had an excellent breastfeeding counsellor at the local hospital and clearly trained their HVs very well in this field. While I was still in hospital I had support - tactful, knowledgeable support- at every feed. It was the standard for any mum who wanted it.

The HV kept telling me that there was something wrong with dd's food intake. I did not want to listen. Later she told me there was something wrong with her legs. I did not want to listen. Dd is now using a wheelchair and will be disabled for life, from the same condition that made her too weak to feed. So will her little brother- it's genetic.

Can you explain to me exactly how I can pin this one on the HV?

Because statistics show that HVs are always wrong?