"Breastfeeding is oppressing women" (from The Guardian)

[morningpaper]

Let the breastfeeding rebellion begin

"In the 70s, many women protested that they were shackled to domesticity by the unreasonably high bar set for housework. Now, some say, it's not the vacuum cleaner that's oppressing women, but another sucking sound ..."

But but but but

This is a depressing article.

A British academic wouldn't give her name "because she is concerned about attacks from the pro-breastfeeding lobby"

I also fidn it really annoying when people say "I really tried to breastfeed for six days and it didn't work" - By six days lots of women will be in agony. The message that if you haven't got it cracked by six days then it hasn't worked - is just wrong.

And if there is such enormous pressure to exclusively breastfeed then why are only 3% of mothers still doing it at 5 months?

Yes women will feel guilty if they don't breastfeed. Women have the chance to feel guilty if they don't do a million things that are 'optimal' for their children's health and wellbeing. We can all agree that women need more support in the transition to motherhood, by setting up this monster of a pro-breastfeeding lobby is utterly unhelpful.

Having children BLOWS for women - your fanjo is shot to pieces, your career goes down the shitter, you piss yourself every time you sneeze, you lose your pension rights, your brain turns to mush, you have no social standing, boys stop grinning at your in the street - but BREASTFEEDING IS STILL THE OPTIMAL WAY TO FEED YOUR BABIES. You can't un-do that boring fact. And handing women a bottle isn't going to make everything better.

This might be a different thread but I am interested to know EXACTLY what training midwives and health visitors and breast-feeding councillors have with regards FEEDING (not breast-feeding) & feeding disorders.

My experience is similar to many on here:
random advice from many different people, midwives, counsillors, HV's and HC assistants about feeding.
DS ended up in hospital on an IV drip for 3 days within days of being born - because a FAMILY FRIEND spotted there was a problem hours after a midwife had visited and said he was fine.

There are a group of professionals within the NHS are are fully trained in swallowing anatomy and able to diagnose disorders, give appropriate advice about FEEDING, including position, swallowing, methods such as cup feeding. They are called Speech & Language Therapists, and yet in one hospital I was told they were 'banned' from the maternity ward and the only way I would get to see one was if I argued my point - I did.

The reasons for the capital letters is that long after my DS had been diagnosed with a sucking disorder and could only feed from a bottle and for various other reasons formula, I was still being given (very pressurising) advice about breast-feeding from HV.

Is the training of midwives etc as comprehensive as that given to specialist Speech and Language Therapists? And if not, Why not?

I think one of the problems is that "breastfeeding" is one umbrella term that actually describes a huge spectrum of experiences.

Women shouldn't feel guilty if bfeeding doesn't work out and they shouldnt make comparisons with other women who may actually have had a very different experience.

For a start, much depends on the baby, regardless of how hard the mother is prepared to try! Some babies come out into the world raring to go, get the knack of latching on on the first day, it's then dead easy for the mother as it doesn't hurt (apart from the first 30 secs!), milk supply builds up quickly so baby is happy and you are both in a virtuous circle where its all going really well.

My dd is 7 weeks now and we've been fortunate enough to be in this category - dd is a very efficient feeder so its 20 minutes every three hours or so - it hardly feels like an imposition and it is so easy to go out and about; all in all it has given me a huge degree of confidence and enjoyment in this early stage of dd's life when I was expecting it to be a total nightmare. She never even lost any birthweight and has moved from the 50th to the 75th for weight over the last 7 weeks, so I have also had that as an enormous encouragement that all is well.

For a woman who has persevered with painful boobs, thrush, and a miserable unsatisfied baby to feel she has made less effort than someone like me would be ridiculous, as I have been lucky enough not to have had to make any real effort at all!

I think a mum and baby's bfeeding experience can very quickly become either an ever increasingly virtuous or vicious circle - you only need one little setback such as an infection or a cracked nipple to really send things off the rails.

sorry Nooka, as a district nurse I work with ALL ages, from children with a terminal illness to the elderly.

You cannot go onto the district without a very long experience in all hospital areas because you work alone.

it can be a very dangerous job and all of the team have been assulted at some time.
Thats what the district is, all ages and all sexes.

I am not taking part in the discussion any longer as some posters just read into statements what they wish to see.
sad aye..

Good luck to all who are pregnant and have newbies.. I hope you all get the help you wish for and all goes great for you.

And finally its quite tough being a nurse as well you know, I have worked in maternity and we had 2 nurses to staff a busy 30 bedded ward.. of course thats not enough.. lobby government dont always moan about the midwives and nurses..

I felt oppressed by bf. This had nothing to do with what other people thought or said or even did. It had a lot to do with being a handy externalisation of the initial horror of parenting.

Ds screamed the whole time he was being fed and as I had not bonded with him, this just added to my feelings of detachment and generally being inadequate. I had to go back to work part-time whilst still feeding ds and I cannot explain the horror of expressing in toilets and needing to rush out of a meeting before my boobs exploded. BF added to my feeling of resentment towards dh - I had to feed during the night even though I then also had to get up at 5.00am for work. It just highlighted for me the inequality of parenting for men and woment.

I was oppressed because I did not want to BF but felt I had to as it was clearly the best thing for the dcs. No one said anything which made me feel like this. It was as a result of being depressed and ill-equipped for being a mother. Parenting can be oppressive and BF was just a very obvious "symptom" of it.

Thebody - I refer to your post in which you said, "I am trying AGAIN to say that it can be very reassuring for mums to be told that in the scheme of life bf and bottle feeding really arn't life or death decisions..Of course all mums find some areas of babyhood bloody tough.. we all do.. You seem determined to see me as a hard faced bitch so thats up to you.
Anyway had enough now so thats my last post."
I would just like to say that I would have loved to have had a nurse/midwife say that to me when my DD was born. She was an emergency CS after it was discovered that her head was stuck behind my pelvic bone, and then I had placenta accreta, and when my uterus was taken out I haemorraged (sp?) very badly and needed five pints of blood. Then three days in intensive care, where I wasn't even allowed to see DD. Then three days in the maternity ward where I was "manhandled" by all manner of people in an effort to get BF started; no sleep as they tried every 45 mins to get milk out, no pain relief "in case" BF started, except some awful drugs that they give to pschotics, a side effect of which is sometimes the production of milk, which left me frightened and depressed. Then, eventually, my gynae suggested FF, and admitted that I may never get milk (which turned out to be the case!) because of the blood loss and trauma my body had been through at the birth. If someone had only suggested that formula was a possibility/probability days earlier, I would have had a happier, healthier start to motherhood.

V. interesting thread.

Has anyone seen the BBC 'bloom' blog that tells you all the things you can do to help the environment? Breastfeeding, it says, is one of them, which, it claims, costs £0 and is 4 out of 5 on the easiness scale.

I logged in and drafted a comment about how it's misleading and unhelpful to say it is easy and free, and that it might help women considering breastfeeding to acknowledge this, so that when they do hit problems (IME most people do first time round) they can be reassured it's normal and it's not that there is something wrong with them or their baby.

But I couldn't post it as it was more than 1000 characters.

Anyone one there good at writing succintly (and spelling) who can put a comment on that blog and explain that breast feeding isn't free and it isn't easy!!!

www.bbc.co.uk/bloom/actions/breastfeed.shtml

Thanks!

lord, thebody, you are behaving like the worst kind of hcp, petulantly removing yourself from the discussion rather than challenge your behaviour and attitudes. you might as well say 'talk to the hand'.

lord, thebody, you are behaving like the worst kind of hcp, petulantly removing yourself from the discussion rather than challenge your behaviour and attitudes. you might as well say 'talk to the hand'.

Throughout breast feeding all 3 of my children, the only thing I have found that would have made any difference to me not breast feeding them is not having the support of my family. Having my Mum and Dad and DH all support me was the only thing that kept me going through the hard times. Had they all told me to give up, I probably would have done.

Until we educate our children (especially teenagers) about the benefits of breast feeding (and I think showing pictures of celebrities breast feeding would be a great incentive!), I doubt breast feeding rates will increase. It has to be something you have want to do first and foremost but I think if you have doubts about it and don't have the confidence, it is too easy to not do it or give up.

My friend decided to breast feed her DD2 after me giving her some advice about the benefits of doing it. She would NEVER have fed her DD1, the thought repulsed her but having the support of someone (her mother was dead against her BF) to turn to made her stick it out and she exclusively BF her DD2 until 5 months old. She sent me the most wonderful thank you card when she finished to let me know that she appreciated just having someone to talk things through with when she was having a hard time.

Hello all,

Completely agree with the idea that breast shouldn't be seen as best, just NORMAL!

Following link is a short talk on this very subject, which I found really interesting.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8BjnGCNahU

bf is the best thing to do - everyone with breasts can & if formula didn't exist everyone would have to. Selfishness comes into it - many mums want their own 'me' time rather than bf.

mybox - your post is very wrong. Breast is not always best. Not every one is able to breastfeed. Not everyone bf before formula existed. Look through history - there have been countless replacements before formula came about when women couldnt bf.

lol at "metime". Ludicrous.

To me the biggest shock of first time new mum was how difficult breast feeding was, I assumed i was going to be a free flowing fountain of milk - i tried for 3wks and then hit the bottle

I had absolutely no prior indication/education that it was going to be hard

If its made clear to women that it is tough - i think more so in this western culture
it is not the "most natural thing" then perhaps we would be more prepared and more relaxed when it gets tough and we would not feel like we are "not doing it right" etc

that actually you can mix formula and breast milk etc if you want to continue breast feeding but finding it hard

particularly as women are at their most hormonally vulnerable pst birth

it feels like there needs to be a very simple clear book called "the first 2 weeks the truth"

we are not informed, prepared or supported so no wonder the statistics are low

personally i think they should do a fly on the wall reality tv show with newborns upto 5months across a couple of different cultures

Hercules - wet nurses where used.

Many mums can't be bothered to bf - imho.

Mybox, have you actually read this thread? I just wonder, because if you have read some of the terrible experiences that some women have had, and yet can still write a post like that, then you must be pretty dense.

Wet nurses were used by the rich only. THere have been loads of conconctions put together throughout history.

I find your posts very offensive about the laziness. You really are clueless.

Because it's so much easier to sterilise bottles, make up feeds, warm up, wash and sterilise bottles than it is to put a baby to the breast.

HazeyJane - I'm not dense - just giving my opinion. I read the article but not all the thread.

I'm not clueless either - some mums can't be bothered and this is what I've seen happen. Perhaps no one else has come across this.

If formula didn't exist my baby would be dead because I doubt I would have been able to afford a wet nurse.

It is not accurate to say that everyone with breasts can breastfeed, not least because it isn't a one-way thing, some babies (mine included) aren't able to suckle correctly.

BTW DS is 3-months and I have had some me-time, I made a cup of tea on Friday and sat and drank it all down. It was such an event i rang my husband!

IMO FF is actually much harder than BF and should really be considered carefully. FF requires among many things; sterilised bottles, 2 hands, and a considered search for the correct teat which must be replaced regularly. This is NOT the easy option.

I disagree. You are clueless. Just spend a little time educating yourself rather than spouting your lazy illreasearched opinions. PErhaps a few minutes reading some of the threads on mumsnet might be a start.

I apologise for calling you dense, Mybox.

I would give the thread a read, it is not always as easy as simply choosing to bf, then realising it's quite hard work and thinking, 'oh well, I'll crack open the formula then.'

I b'fed (well tried and failed!), expressed, formula fed for weeks before i finally ended up f'feeding, I don't thinking wanting 'me' time came into it.

Aw, Mybox

It's insulting for women who have struggled with bf, or who have particular reasons for not bf, to read generalisations like 'everyone can'.

Some people are selfish about lots of things, and I expect there are ff and bf women who are selfish about something, but it's hurtful and annoying for people to read that you think it is an important element in infant feeding choice.

Take it from me. It isn't.

Now - read more, and post less.

I think there are very few people (IME) that make a conscious decision not to bf. It is just not a black and white situation. I bf my DD for 11 months. It was a nightmare for the first 6 weeks, but after that it was great. I thought I had it all sorted and when my DS was born everything went great for the first month (relatively speaking!) and then he stopped gaining weight for the next 3 weeks. Finally I gave into HV pressure and started topping him up with formula. He is now 17 wks and 3 of his daily bf feeds are then topped up with formula - and he has been gaining weight ever since.
I don't know whether I've done the right thing (maybe I should have demand fed more at the beginning etc etc...), but I certainly haven't been lazy. I tried everything I could and the BF/FF feeds now last twice as long as a normal feed, and I have the negative sides of both types of feeding (the lack of freedowm AND all the bottle washing!). But you can only do what you think is best for you and the baby under the circumstances at the time.....

BTW, going back to the original thread issue, I believe that we put INTERNAL pressure on ourselves to bf, but that EXTERNALLY it still isn't very supported or seen as natural. I always feel enraged when I go to IKEA and see the BF area in the restaurant. As if I want to go there with my family and then sit in a separate area with strangers feeding the baby, rather than chatting to my DH and DD. I know they (the shops who do this) are trying to be supportive to bf mothers, but I find it actually has the opposite effect and makes me feel like I am not allowed to feed in public!