"Breastfeeding is oppressing women" (from The Guardian)

[morningpaper]

Let the breastfeeding rebellion begin

"In the 70s, many women protested that they were shackled to domesticity by the unreasonably high bar set for housework. Now, some say, it's not the vacuum cleaner that's oppressing women, but another sucking sound ..."

But but but but

This is a depressing article.

A British academic wouldn't give her name "because she is concerned about attacks from the pro-breastfeeding lobby"

I also fidn it really annoying when people say "I really tried to breastfeed for six days and it didn't work" - By six days lots of women will be in agony. The message that if you haven't got it cracked by six days then it hasn't worked - is just wrong.

And if there is such enormous pressure to exclusively breastfeed then why are only 3% of mothers still doing it at 5 months?

Yes women will feel guilty if they don't breastfeed. Women have the chance to feel guilty if they don't do a million things that are 'optimal' for their children's health and wellbeing. We can all agree that women need more support in the transition to motherhood, by setting up this monster of a pro-breastfeeding lobby is utterly unhelpful.

Having children BLOWS for women - your fanjo is shot to pieces, your career goes down the shitter, you piss yourself every time you sneeze, you lose your pension rights, your brain turns to mush, you have no social standing, boys stop grinning at your in the street - but BREASTFEEDING IS STILL THE OPTIMAL WAY TO FEED YOUR BABIES. You can't un-do that boring fact. And handing women a bottle isn't going to make everything better.

Interesting thread. I breastfed my daughter for 14 months and was lucky enough to find it fairly easy. I didn't feel oppressed by it any more than I felt oppressed by being at the beck and call of such a tiny tyrant (which sometimes I did, as I expect most people do).

What I do find, looking back, and what stands out from posters' experiences in this thread was that there was simply no help on offer that was any use (without expending a lot of time and energy on looking for it). As someone who was doing okay with breastfeeding, I asked my midwife to have a look and tell me if I was doing it right when DD was about three days old and all she said was 'it's not rocket science'. Er, thanks for that. Had I not been lucky enough that my DD appeared to know exactly what to do, I suspect that level of 'help' would have put me right off asking again. And if I hadn't been finding things reasonably easy I'd probably have broken out the formula the next day. Or been really miserable about it.

Why aren't midwives and HVs better trained about breastfeeding? Is the information not available? Or is it that they think they already know about it so aren't bothering to find out more? Or what? I am curious to know what exactly is going on with the terrible state of proper breastfeeding information in the NHS.

On another thread, a mum came across a pregnant teenager at ante-natal class who announced that, unlike all her friends and relatives who had babies, she planned to breastfeed 'just because my mum thinks it's disgusting'.

I thought that was an interesting dynamic...

I don't really blame women for giving up bf tbh. It was total hell for me until I got it established at six weeks. Sure, more support is needed but I personally don't think ff should be frowned upon. Once established, it has been a joy but for me it wasn't the easy option.

One of the reasons why I was so determined to breast feed is because my mum didn't breast feed me and I want dd to turn out differently from myself! Stupid I know.

Poshsinglemum - not silly if it worked, which it did, so good for you! And well done for cracking it.
Hercules1 - well said.
Mybox - must be nice to live in your Walter Mitty world, where everyone who has breasts can breastfeed. Following your logic, presumably everyone who has a vagina can also give birth then, so we can dispense with C sections along with formula feeding?!

Aitcho 'talk to the hand'.x

Jillydix, thank you for actually understanding what I eas trying to say.. a little reasurance of the big picture goes a long way in child rearing.. its not trivialising to put a reassuring arm around a woman and say 'yes its bloody hard but it will get better'. I really dont understand some of the nasty comments I have recieved so thanks for that.

[sigh] That's not what you said, though!

You talked about people needing to get a grip, leading sheltered and pampered lives, telling them it's not a matter or life and death....blah blah.

Not 'it's hard but it will get better'.

That is a little kinder - still a bit useless if someone needs practical skills and help, but kinder

Keep it up!

?if I had only been prepared to listen more humbly to the perfectly competent HVs and doctors who kept telling me that dd was losing weight and that this was bad, I would not have been putting her at risk.?

Cory perhaps if more HV?s and doctors were far more competent in the area of breastfeeding, you would have trusted them more when they strayed into that area?

I think this is part of the problem ? in many cases, a bf mother is right to ignore the advice of her HV/ GP/ midwife when it comes to BF, because it?s usually piss-poor. The danger being of course, as in your situation that when the advice is correct, we can?t trust it because we know they aren't properly trained on BF issues. The solution is to train them properly so that we can trust them IMO.

Thebody there's nothing wrong with reassuring a mother that things will get better. There's everything wrong with telling her that she should get a grip and has no right to feel the way she does. That is frankly disgraceful, though quite common.

the 'get a grip' posting was in response to Tictok apparently knowing lots of women who 30 years after abandoning bf were still 'distraught' I DID NOT ADVOCATE SAYING GET A GRIP TO ANY NEW MUM FOR GODS SAKE.

I agree with HerBeatitude - GP's and HV's need to be appropriately trained in assessing a mother's breastfeeding, so that rather than telling a Mum that she is causing a child to lose weight they can run through a history of the pattern of breastfeeding with each individual.

My own GP told me when my daughter was 16 weeks old that I needed to start solids. a) to keep her breastmilk down (I had sought advice regarding reflux) and b) because she had dropped from the 9th to the 0.4th centile in 6 weeks. She then wanted to review a month later. When I refused to commence solids that early she spouted her paediatric qualifications at me and her knowledge and experience of feeding babies in 3rd world countries. She then told me I had to return in 2 weeks and also see the HV to weigh my daughter again. I walked out of there in tears and went straight to a Breastfeeding Support Worker. She assessed our whole feeding routine and it utrned out my daughter was such a'good' baby she wasn't having enough feeds! I spent the next fortnight waking her 3hrly in the daytime and set my alarm for 2am every night - I was exhausted! By the end of the fortnight she had put on 15oz, still had reflux; and was up to the 2nd centile.

and Tictok bf or bottle feeding IS NOT a matter of life and death love, really it isnt.

You will come to understand this when your kids are older like we all do..

I know what your get a grip comment was in response to thebody. Tikok did not post that women 30 years after the event were "distraught" she posted that they had tears in their eyes.

If a woman, 30 years after the event, still feels tearful about that event, then that probably means that it was extraordinarily painful for her and can also mean that she's never had her feelings acknowledged and validated and thus been able to move on from them.

How strange that you as a health worker are not aware of that. Actually I take it back, I suppose it's not that strange.

the body, i know 2 women very practical, hardworking, no nonsense women, one who nearly 40 yrs later is still upset that midwives ruined her bf relationship with her first even though she went on to successfully bf nos 2 and 3 (by ignoring their advice of 3-4 hrly feed schedule) and the second who nearly 30 yrs later still got tears in her eyes when recounting how lack of good support also ruined hers.

i don't normally discuss breastfeeding with middle aged women btw. would you have told either to 'get a grip' as that was 30 yrs ago?

thebody you have no idea how old my children are, you patronising git.

I know in the West bf/ff is not a matter of life and death. My objection was that you would say this to a mother, already upset about her feeding experience, and that a phrase like this is belittling to her.

I did not accuse you of saying 'get a grip' to a mother - you had already said you would not say it. But you think they should get a grip, and that shows you are unkind and poorly understand the emotions linked with infant feeding.

I did not say mothers were 'distraught' 30 years on. I said they had tears in their eyes. In response to this, you reckoned they were 'pampered and sheltered'.

Lovely

missfitt - she would not have said 'get a grip' but she would have thought it. She would also have thought 'pampered and sheltered' but she would not have said it.

Lets hope her mask never slips if anyone confides in her!

Mummy369 - fantastic you got some good help in the end.

The GP's advice was bizarre. If your baby needed more calories, giving her solids at this young age would be a crazy thing to do - you had the milk to give her in your breasts and all that was needed was to give her more oppoetunities to 'get at it'

Solids might have made her weight issue even more acute

Didn't read the whole article but get the general gist (before anyone gets pissed off with what I am going to say I am actually breastfeeding my son).

I feel the whole approach towards breastfeeding in the UK is wrong. People bang on about the benefits but I would like to pose one question to a militant breastfeeder - is there actually a subset of the population walking around like zombies and morons because they weren't breastfed? No - well guess what formula is not that bad.

In fact my current view is that most people who are health conscious and are told that breast feeding is best for the health of their child will breastfeed (or at least try ) and guess what those children will grow up being health conscious as well hence the purported "benefits" of breastfeeding.

I hate the breastfeeding militia and I hate the way women are made to feel if they don't choose to / can't. If there was a more relaxed approach I am sure it would make women more feel better about the whole thing.

oh, dear. militants and militia.

did you ever live under a Latin American dictatorship? has any of your family ever 'disappeared'? please think of the context of some of the words you choose before applying them to women who happen to advocate and support breastfeeding in a manner with which you don't agree. it cheapens to suffering and horror of those who have lived with terror in their daily lives.

I breastfed DD1 for 2 weeks and DD2 for 2 years.

Erm, I did feel a little bit opressed when my breastfeeding experience was a little bit botched up due to the incompetence of my midwives and doctors who gave me lots of rubbish , conflicting advice that resulted in me having abcesses the sizes of grapefruits in both breasts, being hospitalised post c section for 2 weeks having needles in and out of my breasts to aspirate all the gunk until i begged them to put me to sleep so that they could just cut my breasts open and remove the abcesses properly, which they did. woke up to find tubes sticking out of my breasts to drain the pus out , which was tended to daily as i trekked to see a nurse everyday after being discharged, all became re-infected, wound overgrew itself and was treated chemically to normalise. eventually things settled but i do have scarred breasts. I was already suffering throughout this experience from PND after having had a traumatic c section delivery .

I will be distraught about not being able to bfeed dd1 and about my whole experience and my permanently scarred breasts for the rest of my life

second pregnancy- vowed to learn everything aqbout breastfeeding and went to hospital @ delivery with a suitcase full of breastfeeding aids: cushions, gel pads, ointments, shields & shells. Corresponded with jack newman the breastfeeding guru from canada via email about bfeeding after trauma. dd2 latched on like a dream and i loved every minute of breastfeeding her which i did and weaned sadly, at 2 years , which was what she wanted.

It wasn't oppressive. It was beautiful. relaxing. therapeutic. and bloody convenient.

i will be proud and relieved that I breastfed dd2 for 2 years despite what i went through with dd1 for the rest of my life

Oh, wow. Formula is ok because it does not lead to 'a subset of zombies and morons'??

I think you're setting the standard for formula a tad low, AliGrylls, don't you agree??

Do you not think mothers who use formula want something bit better than that? It's ok for you - you're breastfeeding. But other babies aren't and their parents have expectations that their kids will grow up to be more than just 'not a zombie'. Jeeeez.

Your current view - that people who breastfeed tend to be more health conscious and therefore have more health conscious kids, so it's not the breastmilk that makes the difference, but the health consciousness - is a very, very weak explanation of health differences. I don't think babies of a few months old are health conscious, are they? How can a (say) six month old baby avoid being hospitalised for gastro-enteritis by being 'health conscious'? Even if he isn't a zombie....

Who are the breastfeeding militia and how are they recognisable, BTW?

Great story, sherazade, and it's wonderful you achieved what you did after all that pain.

LeninGrad, I have to go out now, but if you look up Infant Feeding 2005 on the web you can read loads about bf rates and also about the factors that pre-dispose women to choose to bf or not....a lot of these factors are social eg their friends bf, their mothers bf, age, social class, education, as well as 'it's better for the baby' or similar.

Something like (off top of head) 76 per cent of UK women initiate bf.

I think about 1-2 per cent are still excl bf at 6 mths.

About a third of the people who start have stopped completely by 2 weeks - biggest drop in bf happens when mothers are in closest touch with the health services, go figure .