"Breastfeeding is oppressing women" (from The Guardian)

[morningpaper]

Let the breastfeeding rebellion begin

"In the 70s, many women protested that they were shackled to domesticity by the unreasonably high bar set for housework. Now, some say, it's not the vacuum cleaner that's oppressing women, but another sucking sound ..."

But but but but

This is a depressing article.

A British academic wouldn't give her name "because she is concerned about attacks from the pro-breastfeeding lobby"

I also fidn it really annoying when people say "I really tried to breastfeed for six days and it didn't work" - By six days lots of women will be in agony. The message that if you haven't got it cracked by six days then it hasn't worked - is just wrong.

And if there is such enormous pressure to exclusively breastfeed then why are only 3% of mothers still doing it at 5 months?

Yes women will feel guilty if they don't breastfeed. Women have the chance to feel guilty if they don't do a million things that are 'optimal' for their children's health and wellbeing. We can all agree that women need more support in the transition to motherhood, by setting up this monster of a pro-breastfeeding lobby is utterly unhelpful.

Having children BLOWS for women - your fanjo is shot to pieces, your career goes down the shitter, you piss yourself every time you sneeze, you lose your pension rights, your brain turns to mush, you have no social standing, boys stop grinning at your in the street - but BREASTFEEDING IS STILL THE OPTIMAL WAY TO FEED YOUR BABIES. You can't un-do that boring fact. And handing women a bottle isn't going to make everything better.

Motherducky, it's wonderful that you are helping others with similar experiences, but I worry that perhaps you are piling the blame on innocent recipients, and that helps nobody.

foreverchanges, if you had popped around this way 12 years ago, you would have seen a child who was unhealthy because she was breastfed

I was so totally committed to breastfeeding that I simply refused to believe that dd could be undernourished when I was overflowing with milk and she was clearly latched on correctly (checked repeatedly by HVs + I had read all the books and studied the diagrams)

What I did not realise was that dd had a disability which meant she was too weak to suckle effectively.

I refused to listen to that annoying HV who kept going on about the weight- until we both ended up in hospital with the little mite's ribs standing out. It took her months to recover.

Of course it was good that I was committed to breastfeeding, but I will never forgive myself for what I did to her. More humility and less self-righteousness would have gone a long way in my case.

Yes, thebody - I have REALLY REALLY known 'grown women' to have tears in their eyes when they are reminded of 30-years-before sadnesses.

It is terrible to lose a child, and of course that is a greater grief...but life does not parcel itself up tidily into things we are 'allowed' to feel sad about for a certain amount of prescribed time, and things which we are 'allowed' to feel a bit less sad about for a bit less time, and big massive earthquakes of sadness which we are 'allowed' to feel forever.

The intimacy and physical connection with a baby that comes with breastfeeding is something many mothers see as an expression of love, and when it fails to go as planned, they feel sad. Of course they get on with their lives afterwards - I am not talking about women who cry every day for 30 years about it, but I have seen it re-emerge as a sadness because it was not fully dealt with at the time.

How cruel to tell women to get a grip

motherducky, you say "all the pro-breastfeeding material said young mothers are notoriously bad at bf because they are too selfish, everybody can bf (again nonsense), and bf solves any bonding issues (nonsense)."

You know what? I don't believe you have seen any pro-breastfeeding material (leaflets, posters and things, I am assuming) that says any of this, let alone 'all' the material you have seen.

I have the largest collection of infant feeding materials of anyone I know (I am a collector of old babycare books, manuals and leaflets of all types). Nothing I have ever seen has anything like what you claim.

tiktok - It's late I know but if you have the time could you bash some more myths on the aibu thread - blood boiling one especially the last section of the thread.

My mum still talks about her difficulties breastfeeding and how she gave up feeding me after having mastitis. It has come up a few times as I have had mastitis several yimes in the past 5 years.

She always seems sad and slightly defensive about it, as my decision to continue feeding through the infections clearly dredged up uncomfortable memories for her. I try to be supportive but it goes to show how 30+ years on such things can still be the cause of regret.

It is certainly not pampered self-indulgence my mother has suffered much greater loss and pain in her life and it hasn't cancelled out this particular sadness.

I was adamant I would breastfeed and, before giving birth, thought that to not do it is a bit lazy. So my inability to breastfeed was a complete and utter shock.
Was it because the midwife refused to take my epidural robe off so I could put my baby on my breast and let me wait hours before a nurse did do?
Was it my baby's partial tongue tie?
Was it the overworked nurses/midwifes that forced my baby to my nipple, while pinching my nipple causing us both pain?
I still get tears when I think about it, and especially the bizarre scenes where I would be asking for help, somebody would stay with me for 5 minutes, baby would just scream and then the midwife or nurse would rush to their other duties. The chief midwife would make rounds asking about each mum's progress, I was the only one in the room failing completely and nobody could help me. So it was formula for my baby, that a nurse would smuggle in as the chief midwife wanted to encourage me by not giving me formula.

That's what got me really upset. I so wanted to breastfeed but the support was minimal, and I still felt judged by the staff for bot being able to do it! Like talking to deaf ears it felt.

I managed to express for my son for 4 months, and I still wish I had been able to breastfeed him. I honestly felt like I was giving him poison and a failure as a mother.

Nellykats - thanks for sharing your experience, truly apalling that you did not get the help and support you need. It is fantastic that you were able to express for four months.

Also reading Bigmouths post - where she was able to bf
despite mastitis, but that her mum did not get support this with the post from Cory - show the role of supportive HW is too often missing.

So running with lenningrads information is power thread I have taken the following from a WHO document that was initially prepared to help woman breastfeed during war and conflict, what a disgrace that common practices are still not always espoused today in the UK:

[http://www.euro.who.int/document/e56303.pdf]

The following practices can make
breastfeeding go wrong:

Saying anything which makes a mother doubt her
ability to produce milk
Separation of mother and baby
Delaying the first feed
Restricting the frequency of feeding
Washing the nipples before or after a breastfeed
Feeding to a timetable
Taking the baby off the breast before the baby is
finished
Giving other fluids before the first breastfeed
Giving supplementary feeds of artificial milk
Giving plain water, dextrose, glucose or sucrose
water or ?teas? between feeds
Giving free samples of commercial baby milks
Isolating the mother from those who support
breastfeeding
Using nipple shields, bottle teats and dummies
(pacifiers)
Using drugs during childbirth which sedate the
Baby

The following practices can help
breastfeeding go well
Breastfeeding soon after birth
Skin-to-skin contact between mother and baby
Good positioning and attachment of the baby
at the breast
Frequent baby-led feeding
Letting the baby come off the breast
spontaneously
Exclusive breastfeeding
Building a mother?s confidence through kindness
and encouragement
Having contact with people who give
emotional support
Avoiding bottle teats, dummies and nipple shields
Avoiding creams and ointments on the nipples
Avoiding soap on the breasts and washing them
only during normal daily bathing

As a first time mum-to-be (36 weeks), these threads always make me sad and nervous. People are constantly on it insisting there is no pressure on Mumsnet to breastfeed, no guilt if they can't - but if that's the case, why do I feel guilty already? I really want to breastfeed but am worried I won't be able to. And if I can't, I don't know whether I'd have the guts to admit on Mumsnet that I'd given up.

There is pressure. And I can say that at the moment, because at the moment I have neither failed nor succeeded at breastfeeding, so I'm clearly not saying it with an agenda.

I don't think anyone need feel guilty about not being able to bf but I think women have the right to be angry, sad if information and support was denied at such a crucial time.

Best of luck with the upcoming birth Longtalljosie.

The thing I take from thread is that support and information is key and then you can make informed decisions.

LTJ - I agree with everything you say - there is an enormous amount of pressure to BF. My MW didn't even ask me what I planned she just said "you are going to breastfeed as its best for baby, less risk of diseases etc etc" and gave me some leaflets. I asked if she had anything about FF just out of interest and she made a cats bum mouth and said she would have to check but its rare they get asked about FF (probably because people are too scared!!)

I gave up BF after about a week as it just wasn't right for me and my DS. I was so tired because he was very much a 'little and very often feeder' so I was up almost every hour with him. I realised I couldn't go on when I poured the water for a cup of tea onto my hand (I knew what I was doing but didn't IYSWIM) instead of the cup and left the front door wide open one day in my forgetfulness. Made me panic I could do something even sillier around baby.

Of course the HV reacted like I had just taken a dump infront of her and wasn't sympathetic at all. She more or less said I had resigned my baby to years of disease and illness by my decision to give in so easily . I asked if she had any advice on FF and she just said "read the carton".

If you can't BF for whatever reason I don't think you should have anything to feel guilty about so please don't. We all know BF is best for baby but its more important they have a happy mum who will look after them and love them. As long as you are caring for baby and are doing your best thats all that matters.

I have no problem admitting on here that I gave up BF and yes I probably could have pushed through, but might have had a serious accident on the way! In the end my DS is getting fed, cared for, kept safe and warm and is loved. Thats whats important.

Southmum sounds like you had a tough time where was your support I didn't make a cup of tea for myself for a fortnight after dc were born! I would have been the same as you if I had.

I would not have got through my first week feeding dd2 if I had not had dh at home with us. As 4 days after she was born I had the worst bout of mastitis ever. The drugs didn't work and my boob was purple it was horrendous ! It was the knowledge that it could get better and good family support that enabled me to continue. Mum had neither when she had problems.

We should be able to take the time to 'lie in' and establish bf for at least a week not be out doing the shopping 1 day post natal!

Longtalljosie - being 'armed' with information and sources of help and support will be useful to you when it comes to bf.

Where does the pressure you feel come from?

Is it an example of the generalised, somewhat scary 'pressure' we all feel to 'be a good parent'?

I don't know why you feel 'guilty already' - but I am guessing that you hear the facts are simple, that breastfeeding is healthier than formula feeding, but that the practice of breastfeeding may not be simple. And that makes you worried? And you sort of feel 'guilt in anticipation' in case breastfeeding is disappointing or too difficult?

People give up breastfeeding all the time on mumsnet, and get a lot of support and understanding.

But many continue because of mumsnet - loads and loads of people have posted on how their problems and questions were answered on here.

Southmum - horrible and scary experience

Mothers in the first postnatal week (at least) should be protected by law from making their own cups of tea I am serious - they need nurturing and cossetting and plenty of people waiting on them hand and foot. It's sadly not really possible for this to happen these days.

Your health visitor sounds pathetic and silly.

There are many things she could have said to support and advise you - including ways of going back to bf if you missed it and/or ways of bottle feeding that give the intimacy and contact all babies need (however they are fed).

You could complain about her.

I have a lot of information already. NCT have been brilliant, I have a list of their drop-in centres, and the number of an independent bf counsellor who's helped friends. You ask where the pressure comes from... Well, you're right there is great support on mumsnet, but there are also pretty heated arguments on some bf threads. And for people in my position (well, for me - can't speak for anyone else), it is uncomfortable to read.

LTJ, I am interested in your perception of this...my post at 9:46:32 speculated on why you felt pressure. Am I right?

Longtalljosie - I breastfed both my babies for a year each without any problems, so you may well be lucky like me - they were big babies and good suckers, I had a good milk supply (sometimes a bit over eager). I found it intimate, relaxing (it often made me very sleepy), convenient, and lovely. Some of my favourite memories of babyhood are of snuggling up just me and baby all cosy and content.

On the bad side, it really hurt for the first week or so and my nipples did blister and bleed a bit - but they do toughen up. My daughter teethed early (14 weeks) and bit me a couple of times - ouch! Both my babies went through phases which lasted 2-3 days where they seemed to feed constantly. I never really lost my baby weight until after I stopped feeding, and I couldn't go leave them for a significant length of time or get pissed!

I had an overactive letdown with my son and I spoke to a bf counsellor who was lovely and helped a great deal.

So that's my experience, and as you'll see everyone's is different. My advice is have a realistic picture of what to expect - it's not all mastitis and pain, and make sure you have the number of a bf counsellor who can help you if you get stuck. Most of all, try not to feel guilty. And get some Lanisoh!

back to the title of the thread
i dont think bf is oppresive that word is in ulting to woen like e who (after the initial pain)found bf a wonderful experience

slavery , forced prostitution ,torture these are OPPRESIVE

bf may be INCONVIENIENT to soe but surely not oppresive

and i dont feel the pressure to bf is that great ,support from heath professionls is usually lacking though probably soe others do feel pressure to do it and if they fail feel guilt

we dont need guilt trips and think others who feel this need to let it go and just think at least i tried its not my fault it didnt work

same as if a woman doesnt want to bf then its her choice entirely

yeah phlossie bf counsellors are the best source of advice , i was stubborn and determined to bf , went against my hv who just though bf was impossible(i think)
the best advice and encouragement was from la leche league it it was nt for the bf expert on there i prob would have given in to hv and ff

i felt an amazing sense of achievement knowing i had solely kept dd and ds alive for 6 months just by breastmilk
it felt like the most natural thing on earth to me but i do understand the case for all women
but to say its oppresion is utterly ridiculous

'it felt like the most natural thing on earth to me'.

IME that is the key point and feeding my daughter something that comes in a powder complete with health warning feels wrong.

I think that often it isn't a choice - I was scared half to death my MWs threatening to admit my dd to special care due to her weight.

I don't actually care what some prize a-hole who wants to judge me thinks. Even with pnd I can work out rationally that they are not a good person and that teaching a child empathy is as important as anything else.

I also agree with much of what Aitch has said, it is something that you do ultimately have to just 'get over'. I just haven't worked out how to do that yet.

FWIW I think like much of the bfing literature the article is grossly simplistic.