"Breastfeeding is oppressing women" (from The Guardian)

[morningpaper]

Let the breastfeeding rebellion begin

"In the 70s, many women protested that they were shackled to domesticity by the unreasonably high bar set for housework. Now, some say, it's not the vacuum cleaner that's oppressing women, but another sucking sound ..."

But but but but

This is a depressing article.

A British academic wouldn't give her name "because she is concerned about attacks from the pro-breastfeeding lobby"

I also fidn it really annoying when people say "I really tried to breastfeed for six days and it didn't work" - By six days lots of women will be in agony. The message that if you haven't got it cracked by six days then it hasn't worked - is just wrong.

And if there is such enormous pressure to exclusively breastfeed then why are only 3% of mothers still doing it at 5 months?

Yes women will feel guilty if they don't breastfeed. Women have the chance to feel guilty if they don't do a million things that are 'optimal' for their children's health and wellbeing. We can all agree that women need more support in the transition to motherhood, by setting up this monster of a pro-breastfeeding lobby is utterly unhelpful.

Having children BLOWS for women - your fanjo is shot to pieces, your career goes down the shitter, you piss yourself every time you sneeze, you lose your pension rights, your brain turns to mush, you have no social standing, boys stop grinning at your in the street - but BREASTFEEDING IS STILL THE OPTIMAL WAY TO FEED YOUR BABIES. You can't un-do that boring fact. And handing women a bottle isn't going to make everything better.

Tiktok - no, that's not quite the reason. In fact, my post of 0958 alludes to where the pressure comes from. But perhaps I could have made it clearer.

It's not part of a general pressure to be a good parent. Yes, sure, we all feel that - but this is a distinct thing.

What I read on Mumsnet is people who haven't managed to breastfeed trying to explain that they couldn't.

And those who have, asserting with more support they might have been able to.

And many of those who haven't coming back and saying, no it wasn't like that

And those who have bf not really hearing them.

And a general tone of conflict in all breastfeeding-related threads.

FWIW, I have the support. But yes, I do know it's likely to be painful, and difficult, and I might not succeed. My best friend and my sister both managed it. And if I can't - I worry people will think that clearly I gave up to soon / couldn't stick it / whatever.

why is it on this thread if you say something positive about bf it gets pounced upon

i think maybe because the expert help in the nhs is lacking and this is

woman who dont make it through the first stages shouldnt be made to feel guitly imo

think there are far too many women had negative experiences of bf and imo a lot of this is due to lack of support and expert knowledge from nhs healthcare professionals

when i spoke to a bf counsellor i was suprised and shocked at just how often (alomst constantly some days) i had to feed my baby

long tall josie just try your best thats all you can do to put it simply
it was painful for me but its not for others it is time consuming too, for e it was a wonderful experience but its not for all
i would strongly recommend support from one of the bf groups who provide trained counsellors to put your mind at rest

good luck x

Well, I happily ff dd1 after 4 weeks of agonizing bf and I am now happily bf dd2. To be honest, I may be cold hearted but to me it is all much of a muchness, I don't have a special bond with dd2, I don't feel guilt about dd1.

But how people can say that there is no pressure to breast feed after reading the language on this thread and on breastfeeding suppoort materials e.g. 'best', 'most natural', 'synthetic', 'failing' and god help us 'most ecological' is beyond me. We're talking about our kids here. For most parents not doing the 'best' or 'most natural' thing for them, or 'failing' by giving them somethig 'synthetic' is a huge deal. It's not like not doing the 'best' for your cat by feeding them whiskers instead of freshly steamed trout! Of course women feel pressure to breastfeed and of course they feel guilty and judged when they don't. And the last thing they need is to be told that they are killing the planet too, and oh, it's your own fault you feel guilty because you internalized the pressure. I agree that it's best to 'get over' the guilt but people are rarely helped to do that by being told to do it.

On the whole I think peopleshould butt out of other people's feeding decisions, support if asked but don't advise. (unless that's your job of course). The start of a mother and child's relationship is so delicate and intricate it is easily dented.

I have not read all this post as I just don't have the time today, but I wanted to add a small thought of my own and have no intention of offending anyone.

When I was pg with my Ds, it never occured to me that I wouldn't or wouldn't be able to bf. In my mind, I was always going to do that. I'm a fairly stubborn person anyway and if I set my mind on doing something, not much will stop me.
8 years + after having Ds and bfing him for 18 months(though from 10 months he did have the occasional ff and actually, I have no idea why I gave him formula as I expressed like a demon cow)I had Dd. Again there was no doubt in my mind that I'd do anything other than bf her and she's still going strong at 2.7 years; her choice and I'm loving it. I've suffered a lot with Dd's bfing. I've had ductal thrush 13 or 14 times now which is excruciating and the start of mastitis(the same with Ds)which I've massaged out by myself, no drugs etc, though Savoy cabbage sales went up! I've had vomiting to the point where I almost dried up, but kept going and got it back, cracked nipples a couple of times...I could've given up so many times, but in my mind I didn't want to and wasn't going to. I've even told my mum where to get off when she kept saying I should've given it up by now. She incidentally, bfed me for a matter of weeks only as she 'didn't have enough milk'.

Support is definitely what is needed and from strong but gentle supporters. The more mums that bfeed in the next 10 years, the more mums we may see in the future generations doing it. We do seem to have trended it out and we need to trend it back in.

I do wonder if women go into things with a strong resolve whether they/we could have more success stories.

not read all this post = thread.

35 years ago I was unable to bf because of blocked milk ducts on one side-I switched to bottles and all was well with baby.I now find it would have been possible to clear those ducts by more frequent feeding and that just might have prevented the breast cancer I developed 30 years later.My own dd only bf for 4 months with each child and she doesnt feel a bit guilty but I think she would have done if she hadnt tried at all.As far as oppression goes women are only oppressed if they allow themselves to feel like that.Modern women are empowered to make their own decisions based on a mixture of information and inclination.

LTJ - Please don't worry.

I initially was going to post to this thread in answer to the Guradian article. I do not feel oppressed by having breastfed my DS (now 9 mths). To the contrary, I feel empowered - I was always pants at anything 'physical' - sports/giving birth etc. BFing has been something I've been able to do and has felt like the most natural way to nurture and comfort my lovely son. That doesn't mean it's all been a doddle.

Now I'm back at work, he has formula whilst with his childminder and we have lovely feeds in the morning and when I get back which allow us to reconnect. (And assuage my guilt for working... But that's a different thread.)

However, my choice to BF is NOT a judgement on anyone else's choices (forced or not). Not one woman I know has ever made important decisions about their child lightly. They might have made them with or without real support/knowledge and reluctantly or happily. I was lucky with breastfeeding. Despite some early issues which might have interfered with the success of my decision to BF (about which I'm now much more informed partly due to Mumsnet), it established well. And it is, simply, one of the most important things that I've done for both me and my DS. But that doesn't mean that there aren't equally important other things that mums do all the time for and with their children.

I just wish that better support for mums who would like to breastfeed is generally available. You've done a great thing by seeking out the support now - but don't feel cheated if you don't need it - it might just go well, you know! I think Mumsnet is great but you rarely get threads from people saying I'm feeding, everything's going well and nothing to report. And if you make a decision to stop breastfeeding, at whatever point or for whatever reason, you will be make it in an informed way with the best interests of you and your child at heart.

And I second Tiktok's view that one of the most important things for the first fortnight is that you are treated like a princess. Cossetting is much underrated!

I think that the constant feeding is a big issue here. If you follow a ''routine'' you are led to believe that you feed every three to four hours but in reality with bf you do need to feed all the time because baby has such a small tummy and breast milk is very easily digested. Lots of women probably think that the constant feeding means that they can't produce enough milk which simply isn't true.
I think in the west it is really hard to get used to having a tiny being attached to your boobs all day but in other societies where bf is the norm then women would be prepared for it.

well sometimes it is the best option to 'get a grip'. Thats life.

Yes of course its quite possible to feel sad about not being able to do something that you had planned to, like bf your child, but all the psycho babble of bonding and clap trap that surrounds having a child is just getting too much and as usual its women who suffer the guilt, women guilt tripping other women. if you feed your child and love your child that is enough.. you are a good mum..

Health care professionals have a role to SUPPORT women whether they choose to bf or bottle feed, it isnt up to them to make value judgments on anybody, infact that goes against your whole ethos and trainig.. and actually tictok I was a nursing sister and I have lots of empathy with a good deal of commen sense mixed in with this.

Well Lenin my grandmother (would be 101 if alive now) fed her younger brothers and sisters watered down cows milk.

Solo, I think if anything too much emphasis is put on the pain to mother aspect. The fact is if your baby doesn't gain weight you are TOLD to give them formula.

Longtalljosie, exactly my point, you havn't even given birth yet, as I understand it, and you are all ready worrying about people judging you on your ability to bf etc..

Please dont.. enjoy your baby and do whats right for you, not what suited your friend or sister.. best of luck...

it's perfectly possible to think you're a fucking brilliant mum and still be a bit bummed that you didn't manage to bf. getting over it etc doesn't mean feeling delighted that things worked out that way, it doesn't mean you can't be reminded every so often, say thirty years later when you see your own child feeding your grandchild, of the fact that you were disappointed. i'm not sure why you're being so black and white about this. [fucking brilliant mum]

hey brettgirl, sorry to hear that you had a rough time. have you started weaning yet? that helped me a lot to get things into perspective,

Stupidly written, flimsy journalism. Yet again...

And yet again, someone links to a crap article and then MNers take it apart and debate it with delicacy, subtlety and wisdom that was lacking in the original journalism. Why aren't we being paid loads to write for the national press?

being a bit bummed.. yes.. tears of sorrow 30 years later.. no..

I am, as you call it, black and white about society guilt tripping mothers.

Just getting back to this (just done weekly big-shop)

Tiktok - you sound lovely! TBH I had DP with me for 3 weeks after I left the hospital but I was fairly insistent on doing some things myself (had a very traumatic birth and just wanted 'normality' back). He did dote on me I must admit but that didn't stop me from doing the pretty dangerous things I did (and now know most others have done so thats a bit of a relief).

You're right in that I definitely didn't have any support really, just tutting and pursed lips for not carrying on. I might have made another decision if she had been a bit less judgemental - but I think once my mind was made up that was it but who knows?

LTJ - You must not feel bad if you choose not to BF (for whatever reason). If people want to judge you let them. The fact of the matter is the baby will be fed. As long as you look after and care for him / her thats the end of it IMO.

being a bit bummed.. yes.. tears of sorrow 30 years later.. no..

I am, as you call it, black and white about society guilt tripping mothers.

thebody: "... all the psycho babble of bonding ... if you feed your child and love your child that is enough.... I was a nursing sister and I have lots of empathy with a good deal of commen sense mixed in with this."

Bonding is not psycho-babble.

Feeding and loving is not enough...it's a great start, but it is not enough for either mother or baby.

I hope you do have empathy, thebody, but I see very little evidence of it in your posts.

YOU are guilt tripping mothers, thebody, all those mums who don't feel the same as you, we shouldn't be wasting our time thinking about bfing. if we don't agree with you you're calling us self-indulgent, it's appallingly rude.

i'm not an idiot, i am 99.9% over the fact that i was shit at bfing but i guarantee you that if i see my own child successfully bfing my grandchild i will cry. most definitely, completely 100% i'll be blubbing.

Thanks, everyone.

I've especially taken to heart Gruffalo's point that women for whom the story is, I'm doing it, it's all going fine - are less likely to come and discuss it. That's very true.