"Breastfeeding is oppressing women" (from The Guardian)

[morningpaper]

Let the breastfeeding rebellion begin

"In the 70s, many women protested that they were shackled to domesticity by the unreasonably high bar set for housework. Now, some say, it's not the vacuum cleaner that's oppressing women, but another sucking sound ..."

But but but but

This is a depressing article.

A British academic wouldn't give her name "because she is concerned about attacks from the pro-breastfeeding lobby"

I also fidn it really annoying when people say "I really tried to breastfeed for six days and it didn't work" - By six days lots of women will be in agony. The message that if you haven't got it cracked by six days then it hasn't worked - is just wrong.

And if there is such enormous pressure to exclusively breastfeed then why are only 3% of mothers still doing it at 5 months?

Yes women will feel guilty if they don't breastfeed. Women have the chance to feel guilty if they don't do a million things that are 'optimal' for their children's health and wellbeing. We can all agree that women need more support in the transition to motherhood, by setting up this monster of a pro-breastfeeding lobby is utterly unhelpful.

Having children BLOWS for women - your fanjo is shot to pieces, your career goes down the shitter, you piss yourself every time you sneeze, you lose your pension rights, your brain turns to mush, you have no social standing, boys stop grinning at your in the street - but BREASTFEEDING IS STILL THE OPTIMAL WAY TO FEED YOUR BABIES. You can't un-do that boring fact. And handing women a bottle isn't going to make everything better.

Ok, just asking.

Interesting.

How does that fact that breastfeeding is natural etc make people feel guilty? I never particularly liked breastfeeding and would have given it in a bottle were that possible but I dont have an ounce of guilt about not enjoying it.

Not really a big issue the red book boxes, I know, but the one I have has three in, Breastfeeding:

Totally, Partially, Not at all

I have given my little one a very occasional bottle of formula as expressing just wasn't working for me for the first few months, and I still couldn't help feeling a little put out that this means partially is ticked even though he's had almost nothing but breast milk.

I know that I am doing this to myself . But I'd still like a fourth box for something like "Primarily/Mainly".

and are you saying that women who dont breastfeed are
not bonding in a 'primeval way ' (whatever that means.. )with their babies.. and you have the cheek to tell me I lack empathy.. your posting is just the sort of ridiculous clap trap that DOES oppress women imo...

what do you mean whether we like it or not.. thats just your opinion isnt it not fact.. bottle feeding mums have just the same amount of feelings for their children as bf mums...

thebody: I am trying to explain why women might feel genuine grief at missing out on an experience that they WANT.

I didn't say primeval but I like the image

I found breast feeding both easy and oppressive. Never had any negative experiences with feeding in public or around my family (I'm not terribly observant though!) and never had any problems with latching on etc (I hold no feelings of superiority about this, the midwife latched ds on after my c-section, and that was that, I hold this as all his (and later dd's) expertise, not mine). I don't think it would be a terribly good idea to tell women who are in two minds that breastfeeding will be terribly difficult, because although it is for some people, that's not a universal experience, and it would undoubtedly mean that some women who might try and not struggle would never start.

Anyway, even though breastfeeding was not difficult for me physically, I did find it difficult psychologically, because I really really didn't like the dependence thing. Now this is a major part of motherhood, which some people love, but for those of us who struggle having the baby physically attached for long periods of time can be a bit of a nightmare, and I don't think there is very much support if you feel like this. Not because you are depressed mind, just because it's not in your mental make up to be comfortable with total dependency. So for me I did feel oppressed, but it was mothering a tiny baby that caused this (only really helped by the babies becoming children and going back to work).

I think alongside the better support for breastfeeding should come better support for parenthood full stop (for fathers too), and perhaps less presentation of early motherhood as either fantastically wonderful/happy or terribly depressed/awful, and more as being complex and different for different people in different circumstances.

Noone has said that people give formula dont have "the same amount of feelings". THat doesnt mean that breastfeeding isnt a different experience to bottlefeeding with possibly different emotions attached for some people.

i looked primevil for the first week of bf knotted hair no make up !

oh and bleeding nips thats primevil

err think the word was primal sorry could resist

The only thing I liked in that article was the reference to the Politics of Breastfeeding by Gabrielle Palmer. The idea that breastmilk is "the most ecological food product in the world", on the grounds of (amoungst other things) minimum air miles is just fantastic because it is so obviously true. Clearly the author of the article felt that this was more oppressive polemic, I just thought it was an amusing idea.

I can relate to your experience nooka. That whole dependence thing. My complete lack of freedom or autonomy was a huge shock to me. Made worse by the fact that neither of my dcs would take a bottle (of expressed milk) which meant I felt almost literally tied to the babies for a long time. I don't regret my choice though. And I wouldn't say I 'enjoyed' it but felt very strongly that bfeeding my kids was an amazing and wonderful thing for me to do. A lot better second time around.

(I thought that was funny too nooka)

Apart from the lack of env damaging packaging and air miles associated with Breast Milk - Breast milk helps reduce the occurrence of diarrhoea, pneumonia and malnutrition - the leading killers for under fives globally.

And on the Gabriele Palmer theme when you think about it in countries where you may have to spend a significant portion of your income on fuel, light, water, transport to enable hygienic ff, which would seem the most oppressive - ff or bf?

So while if you live in the UK and have access to clean water, sanitation, hygiene awareness, refrigeration and access to health services then the context of where you live may help some view feeding babies as a non-event.

This is another kind of articles that trys to polarise the breast or the bottle debate, especially silly when so many UK woman may be able have a mix of bf and ff. Articles like this irk me due to the rubbish generalisations. Women in the UK have the right to choose, but I would like to think they should also have information made available on the subject. And this includes sharing of personal and cultural experiences which have been articulated on this thread.

I agree 100% Nooka. The only good thing about having gone back to work is that I know that I can have some time every day where DS can be fed without me having to be there. That said, I cried the first time DH gave him a bottle as it just looked so weird.

With regards to the support thing, I really didn't need any but a friend of mine was dead set on BFing and had a horrible time before giving up after a fortnight.

We are lucky enough to live in an area with loads of support and correspondingly high BFing rates but she says that she had too much help! Every day for the first couple of weeks after her DD was born there was at least two health professionals at her house - the BF counsellor, a midwife or two and at least one HV - all giving her conflicting advice, manhandling her and making her feel like shit for considering FFing. Her DD's weight plummeted down through the centiles and it wasn't until our (v scary) BF counsellor had her christmas hol that my mate packed it in so she wouldn't have to explain herself (as she saw it).

7 months on and she still feels terrible about it. Support is all very well, but the pros all need to be singing from the same hymn sheet and coordinating how they work together.

Nobody is suggesting you say, 'this is incredibly difficult' because it aint. Just to say, 'you need to learn how to do it, might come quickly, might take a bit longer.' It's only honest, since when did we stop being honest in order to persuade people to bf? And besides given how many give up whatever the current policy is now isn't working.

Now I think there's a problem with bf women feeling oppressed by society. Everyone is oppressed suddenly.

It's only on MN that I've ever heard of people being horrid in public. That was never my experience. I must admit it has also not been my experience to be approached by old ladies keen to tell me about their breast feeding traumas. I must confess to being hugely relieved about this

"By thebody on Sat 18-Jul-09 19:52:47
Hunkermunker. 'grief and helplessness' ABOUT BF. sorry thats just ridiculous and totally self indulgent.. "

In your opinion. And just because you think it, it doesn't make you right.

It's a non-event for you. Cool. I bet there are things that upset you that I would be baffled by - but you know what? I'd try to understand WHY you were upset, not just call you ridiculous and self-indulgent.

Parent and child parking spaces excepted

Ah well I think the message was pretty much 'you need to learn how to do it, might come quickly, might take a bit longer' when I was pregnant, but that was ten years ago, and as I had no problems the extent of my contact with the health world (apart from work, as I was in the NHS at the time) was the original midwife pretty much stuffing my nipple in ds's mouth as I lay in recovery after my c-section, the post natal midwives telling me to get moving in the hospital, and then two or three five mins visits at home to check all was OK, and the HV as little as possible. The only real conversations about BF were in my NCT group, and they were pretty honest and realistic I think. We did have a very lovely facilitator though.

well of course its just my opinion.. thats what mumsnet is.. just opinions.. I didnt say I was right..

I simply feel that to saddle women with lots of guilt trips over such a small aspect of parenthood is wrong..

You feel guilty if you want to and indulge others if you wish.. personally I dont..

Now I have to give some time to dh or he will be guilt tripping me.. love to all..nite nite..xx

In my whole time breast feeding I had one old man walk out of the docs waiting room - I think he felt more oppressed than me.

How is acknowledging that women feel sad about having choice taken away from them by bad practice/ill-informed HCPs guilt tripping them?

monkey trousers saw a woman breastfeed her baby at lords today in a hospitality tent at table at lunch, it was mainly men, all seemed like ecb older cricket fan types and was please to see that this was a non-event for all involved.

Good on you Hunkermunker - especially for indulging women about what it was like for them. Keep overindulging them.

Oh, I intend to, PF, don't worry

Having given birth is a great leveller, I think.

I haven't read all this thread, just the first few pages, but I have to say...

I AGREE with the article.

Of course new mothers (especially first timers) internalise the pressure to bf - but that is what the majority of new mothers are like, and it is something the bf lobby should be more sensitive to.

I quit bf dd2 because it was stopping me from bonding with my baby, I felt it was more important to love my baby than to attach her to my nipple hourly. Why did I feel guilt-racked for years and struggle so as a result? Because 1 midwife told me bf works if you are TOTALLY committed to doing your best to baby, another told me I was not mature enough to cope with a baby (utter nonsense), because all the pro-breastfeeding material said young mothers are notoriously bad at bf because they are too selfish, everybody can bf (again nonsense), and bf solves any bonding issues (nonsense). Almost every woman who's opinion I respected who smile at baby, ask if I was 'feeding her myself' then raise an eyebrow or try to talk me round when I said formula.

Since then I have helped many mothers in thier struggle to become confident (even 8 years later) at mothering after similar experiences.

SO I think the article is spot on.

"pro-breastfeeding material said young mothers are notoriously bad at bf because they are too selfish, everybody can bf (again nonsense), and bf solves any bonding issues (nonsense)."

nonsense.