Teacher questioned over attempted murder of pupil

[Frasersmum123]

This happened near to me

ahh - sorry - must have missed those bits .

Just to clarify I have sympathy for both (at the moment - disclaimer obviousy as the case "unfolds" my feelings may well change)

a teacher always has a choice,
leave the room
leave the job
get help.

This young lads life will probally be chaged forever(If he survives) he will most likely have some form of brain damage, more than likely epilepsy(bye bye driving)

Oh, OK, thought it was unusually harsh of you!

As for attempted murder, IIRC it involves the intention to kill (or to cause grievous bodily harm with a high probability of death), and doing something towards that aim - intent and action. (Need a criminal lawyer or magistrate on the thread.) So, if the teacher grabbed a heavy object and hit the child round the head, that might justify attempted murder on the 'doing something dangerous enough to kill someone' reasoning.

I think it is sad that people are assuming the boy was as fault. I say that as a teacher who has been assaulted, threatened with anal rape and thrown against a wall resulting in me loosing my baby. But those pupils do not represent most pupils, they are a small minority.

As a teacher who has taught in very tough conditions the choice is there to walk out, to reflect on what went wrong that day and change school or career.

I do feel for the teacher, while still thinking he is wrong, he clearly must have been under huge mental stress and teaching is an awful job when you are not mentally strong and start on that downward spiral. From what little I have read he has been a good teacher in the past and he as now lost that.

losing sorry.

Na, attempted murder has to be planned and there needs to be an intention. If he grabbed something and hit him then this isn't attempted murder as he could have just 'lost it', therefore it's not a planned incident and there was no intention. No one knows what happened though.

flatcapandpearls very fair post

Fluffy - thanks but even more confusing. Guess we'll have to wait for the court case to find out what 'planning' was involved...

Right, in order for a crime there needs to be the action and the thought (the planning before the crime). In attempted murder, there needs to be the action (actus reus) and the planning element (the mens reus/mental element). It can't be attempted murder without the planning aspect/mental element. It needs to be thought about and planned for it to be attempted murder. Manslaughter is murder without the planning/mental element.

Criminal law's confusing!

I assume he has been charged with attempted murder because of the words he used prior to or as he started his attack. I read them in the paper but can't remember exactly but mentioned killing. I imagine the CPS will say that is sufficient to show intent and his defence will no doubt be diminished responsibility and the alternative charge will be manslaughter.

I should add that I studied crim law 20 years ago and haven't gone near it since. I hope that someone more knowledgable will be along either to confirm what I've said or say I'm talking boll*x.

I have sympathy for both and assume that the truth of whatever really happened will come out eventually.

Thanks 2shoes. The whole thing is awful for everying concerned, but a mother is sat at a hospital bedside while people demonise her son. I also feel for te teacher's daughters who still go to the school.

I read this thread earlier on and was completely torn about where my sympathy was on this.

Just watched it on the news with dh (secondary school teacher) and as he said...he should have turned around and walked out...

so we are thinking that there must be some underlying issues from the previous stroke here. Therefore we need to look at why the teacher was back in work when he obviously was not ready. Once again the system in which we put all our faith in has failed spectacularly and it needs to be addressed.

flatcatand pearls im sorry for what has happened to you and you are right to say not all kids are the same.But as a teacher you have to know your limits the same as parents we all get pushed to our limits and we all have a point where we have to walk away, the difference is this man didnt and a child got hurt, and in the long term magor damage has been done to the other children who knew them both. There are always warning signs before an incident which im sure will come out later, therefore if this teacher had already displayed signs of stress he sould have been monitered or given aless stressful role. Clearly he was not assessed which means his employers are at fault not the children.

Frankly I'm surprised that more don't snap. I'm sure I would have done had I been a teacher.

I do know my limits and have walked out of a classroom and recently left a job as I knew I was at my limit. As I said above I do think this teacher should have done this and what is more worrying is that the school management team did not spot anything was wrong or if they did they chose to ignore it to save money.

I think many do snap but in different ways, I know pre dd when I taught in a tough school I drank a lot and most staff did the same.

slight side step, but I think this will cost, I should imagine that the parents will have no case but to sue the LEA, as what ever the out come ,their child will need a lot of help, and as i know so well that costs.

I am sure it will cost but schools do "coerce" staff to return early in order to save money on supply

I'm not sure that's right about murder v manslaughter and planning. I think for an action to be murderous a reasonable person would realise that the action in question would be likely to kill the other person.

Or something like that but have no real knowledge and am aware I am just winging it a bit.

flatcapandpearls but this cock up will cost them a lot more.

Yes but I dont imagine for one moment the thought it would end up that way - who would?

Confused because BBC news report said, that after the boy was taken to hospital, police arrived at the school to arrest the teacher who was taking a lesson. Why was he taking a lesson? How could he be calm enough to continue taking a lesson?!

"How could he be calm enough to continue taking a lesson?! "

More to the point, why would he be teaching a lesson given he'd just hit a boy in the head with a weight??

That report must be wrong, surely?

Can you imagine sitting in his class pretendig to listen to him teaching physics while another child lies bleeding and unconscious in the corridor?

I just can't believe that happened.

Poor man must have been under tremendous stress to have been driven to this