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Michael Jackson The Farewell

619 replies

KIMItheThreadSlayer · 07/07/2009 18:48

I think it is a rather nice send off,
Fitting.
Nice to hear others sing his songs

OP posts:
Hulababy · 09/07/2009 09:23

So before I read these articles linked to - who is this Orth woman? What are her credentials? Where does she get her information from? How does she know what she writes is fact and not speculation?

AitchTwoOh · 09/07/2009 09:24

now you just sound silly, bobbysmum, really. i take it you didn't read bright lights big city. and as for linking to a piece from a michael jackson site... dur.

oj was acquitted in a star struck californian court, i take it you all think he was innocent. i mean, he doesn't, but what does OJ know?

Pan · 09/07/2009 09:25

Difficult isn't it? We none of us know what happened between MJ and the children. Not I nor no-one else on this thread. But that doesn't appear to stop some posters deciding on guilt?
Lots of heat, very little light.

monkeytrousers · 09/07/2009 09:29

Dittany knows.

Pan · 09/07/2009 09:31

Apparently so, MT. But I musn't go there.

AitchTwoOh · 09/07/2009 09:32

criticised by who? MENTAL mj fans, no doubt. do you have a link to the footage?

www.maureenorth.com/ there's a wiki ref too but it's in dispute. she really is a well-regarded writer, tbh, been around a long time.

hitchens writes upfront in the mag as a columnist, mt, i'm sure you know that's a completely different species of writer and scarcely worth comparing.

spokette · 09/07/2009 09:36

Hulababy.

Maureen Orth was married to a famous and respected journalist, Tim Russert who died of a heart attack before going on air. I think he will be turning in his grave at her ungracious, embarrassing and demeaning behaviour.

She does not even know the Jackson family so she passes speculation and innuendo as truth for those who want their opinions formed for them.

If she really knew that MJ had abused those children, why does she not pass her evidence to the authorities? Because she has none.

monkeytrousers · 09/07/2009 09:37

Yes, you are right. Down Monkey!

Pan · 09/07/2009 09:40

I suspect the reason I on occassion 'lose it' with some posters is that I ahve been professionally involved in child abuse in most of it's forms, in lots of settings,for over 20 years, inspired by Jasmine Beckford, circa 1987. You learn lots of things, and one of them is 'perspective'. Something utterly devoid in some posters.
The whole 'journo-credibility' angst is risible.

spokette · 09/07/2009 09:44

Pan

I remember the Jasmine Beckford case.

I am actually close via family acquaintances to the case right now that is in the media about the little girl who was starved to death in Birmingham.

AitchTwoOh · 09/07/2009 09:45

even in a court of law it just has to be beyone reasonable doubt, pan, not 100%. i really think that if you read those pieces, see what was done to those families, the bullying, harassment, attempts on their lives etc, plus the fact that a number of staff members have been paid off handsomely when they've threatened to speak PLUS the fact that MJ's camp has never taken such a high-profile magazine to court to dispute any of the assertions contained therein, that does take things beyond reasonable doubt for me at least.

they're a litigious lot, the MJ camp, they take action where they can. a south american journalist wrote a book about the jordy chandler case containing near-pornographic detail about mj using tampons on the kids, lots of detail from the staff about what they'd seen etc. they never sued.

they did sue, however, when he went on a tv programme and said he'd seen a video of MJ and a child naked together but because he couldn't produce the video to prove it, they got him for over $2mill and backrupted him. in that time his house and office i think were burgled, his life was threatened etc.

but why not sue about the magazine articles and the book, if they were untrue? big readership there...

like i say, i think if anyone reads those never-challenged since '94 pieces, it will cast some new light on the way MJ lived.

AitchTwoOh · 09/07/2009 09:47

your link doesn't work, spokette.

Pan · 09/07/2009 09:48

Tragic, spokette. What is chilling as well is that the recommendations from the JB enquiry get echoed throughout every other case, incl Baby P and Victoria Climbie re agencies not talking to each other, not recognising that the 'client' is the child NOT the family, practitioners having more confidence in demanding sight of children, lack of over all maangement of departments etc.

AitchTwoOh · 09/07/2009 09:48

have you seen it, spokette? what did she actually say? (barring the bit about the sacrifices which is talked about in the mj fan blog where the film was embedded).

AitchTwoOh · 09/07/2009 09:53

and what does this "The whole 'journo-credibility' angst is risible" mean, i don't understand. you think she has no credibility as a journalist?

spokette · 09/07/2009 10:08

I saw it yesterday. It was embarrassing and the host did not know where to look. He could not shut her up and she came across as deranged. She just ranted about her allegations. She clearly despises MJ and as a so called journalist, there was no impartiality or objectivity. It was a personal and vitriolic invective against MJ.

I reckon NBC have removed the video because they are scared of being sued. If I was them, I would be looking to sever links with Orth too. Russert was revered but that should not extend to Orth just because she was his spouse.

AitchTwoOh · 09/07/2009 10:12

yes yes yes spokette but as such a partisan MJ fan i can't really say i want to hear about the interview refracted through your eyes.

what did the woman actually SAY?

and tbh if you had bothered to read those pieces i don't know if you'd get the impression that she hates him. she explicitly states that she's a fan of his, for example.

spokette · 09/07/2009 10:17

Aitch

Anybody watching her performance would have come to the conclusion that she hated MJ.

As for what she said. Same old stuff. Child abuser, drug abuser blah, blah, blah.

Sorry but can't recount it word for word.

AitchTwoOh · 09/07/2009 10:21

btw an investigative journalist has no responsibility to be impartial, she has a responsibility to investigate and for her investigation to be written up fairly and truthfully.

people get very mixed up about impartiality, it doesn't mean that if you're reporting on the earth being round that you have to give the flat earth society equal time in the piece.

if the whole nutso celeb-driven world is taken in by the MJ 'sure it's okay for him to sleep with young boys cos he's wacko jacko' line and she's hearing from is own staff members and parents that he's abusing young boys, she's trying to chip away at a big cliff face there.

AitchTwoOh · 09/07/2009 10:22

have you read her pieces, spokette? and do you not think it interesting that he never sued?

AitchTwoOh · 09/07/2009 10:27

www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/26/maureen-orth-recounts-mic_n_221334.html

is this a fair report of what she said, spokette? doesn't sound that ground-breaking to me.

spokette · 09/07/2009 10:45

One of the responses to Maureen's Orth tirade on the Today programme.

"I had once admired Maureen Orth, in part, because she was part of a very admirable family. Her son Luke seems like a very capable and intelligent young man, and I was sad to hear abou ther husband's untimely death.

When I was watching TODAY while Matt Lauer chatted with her, I was completely SHOCKED (and I don't shock easily) to hear Ms. Orth spewing vile accusations about Michael Jackson, not 24 hours after his death. The whole "voodoo" and "cattle blood-letting" rumors, which stated as FACT were completely appalling and inappropriate. I actually gasped when I heard her relay these statements to Mr. Lauer.

Shame on Maureen Orth. Maybe she'd like to work at Weekly World News. The Enquirer has more integrity than she displayed."

I tried searching Youtube for the clip but alas, never to be seen again by the public.

Mamazon · 09/07/2009 10:52

Jordan chandler admits he lied

slyandgobbo · 09/07/2009 10:54

dodgy website. look at the disclaimer.

AitchTwoOh · 09/07/2009 10:59

ffs spokette.

you simply haven't read those pieces because you don't want to hear another opinion. c'mon, i have to read all the 'he was so great and he was acquitted' blether in the mass media. (although it will not last).

she stated those things as fact because as bizarre as they sound (although more bizarre than toting a chimp around, only enjoying the company of small boys etc?) she believes them to be true and has a source on the record as saying that he arranged for it to take place.

you cannot dispute that he had a monumental drug problem, he was in and out of rehab often, so why is it so unlikely that he was paranoid and lashing out at his perceived enemies?

just read the pieces, they're well-written. she's not a nut.