Light sensors cause religious row

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Story here.

Maybe they should just move?

lil: you wrote "morning paper you are doing it again..stop using extreme examples of racism such as BNP to justify your over sensitivity to far lesser statements on mn. It muddies the water completely."

No, mp is doing exactly the right thing and far from muddying the waters, it makes it clearer. Where do you think extremism of this sort begins? It is when parties like the BNP find fertile ground for their repulsive views; places where people are happy to belittle the views and beliefs of minority groups, and to view anyone not white and 'British' and Christian as the 'other' - a group of people not like them.

In a way, even the Jewish website comment quoted at the beginning demonstrates how anti-Semitic Britain still is - the whole idea that Jewish individuals shouldn't 'make a fuss' in case people think badly of all of 'them'. One wouldn't say that unless there was already an anxiety about being unequal, would one?

"it is hard to debate, when you know the other person has no repsect for your views or opinion"

no, this is when you do debate even harder, not resort to the cop out nazi attack.

I think the thing that as an atheist I find so hard to understand is why you would want to live your life in such a restrictive way, whatever religion you follow?

As a non believer it is very difficult to get your head around people actually believing in anything religious as it all seems such nonsense.

I do find religion very interesting in an historical kind of way. I love tradition and in a small way am envious of strong religious communities who have what seem like wonderful festivals and occasions, but I guess that's my limited and film influenced knowledge speaking.

I would not want to offend someone on account of their religion, any more than I would want to offend anyone over any beliefs they held. I do think however, that it is hard not to put your foot in it, when the whole belief in a god, the very thing it is all based on, is nonsensical to you.

Not sure what point I'm trying to make. I guess I think it's a shame that something which seems so odd to me(religious beliefs, especially those which have become outdated by the development of society and science), can make people's conscience prick them so.

onager, i personally found it offensive. maybe lots of Jews reading it would not. i did. and i am allowed to be offended

lil, i have not called anyone a nazi.

you are missing the point, that it is not ok in my eyes to use this language, even if you would use it about any otehr relgious or minority group.

anyway, there is also little point debating with someone who is so clearly convinced they are right

i think becky has nailed it really.

All I have done on this thread is questioned why an automatic light is so wrong, that is my problem as as a Gentile !

But if you taken time to read what I've posted, you would know that I have also questioned my own religion as they had similar rules for the Sabbath too.
I actually question all religion as I don't agree with organised religions telling people what to do and how to live their lives.

Religion and its perceived differences and injustices are what cause a lot of the problems in the world, imvho.

I have never told anyone to go f**k themselves, regardless if they are green, pink, blue whatever.

This thread to me, is just another example of ignorance on all sides, so am including myself too, of others religious practices.

I wonder what the world would be like without religion?

Probably no different as man will always find something to argue or fight about.

OK Becky et al just to be clear...there is actually no polite way any mn could add to this thread, saying they disagreed with said couple, without you calling them an antisemite is there..cos I am at a loss to think of one..

I'm pretty certain that some zealots outspoken posters on this thread would be equally dismissive of and/or rude to any religion, and indeed have been on other threads. I don't think it's anti-semitism per se. I think it's more (for some anyway) a kind of fundamentalist view of the world.

i posted las night that i was shocked by the ignorance and intolerance shown on this thread... have returned now and am even more shocked. the tone of many of these posts is offensive / racist / anti-semitic.

if some of you dont mean to come across that way you should educate yourselves a little or not post... your ignorant bigotry does you no favours and is likely to offend and upset many people, me included.

"anyway, there is also little point debating with someone who is so clearly convinced they are right"

yes there is to provide another view..that's the point of the thread...well it was before that got stamped on...sigh

Lulamama, you are allowed to be offended, but was it anti-jewish or anti-this-particular couple? If the latter than that would be like the people in milten keynes saying they were allowed to be offended because I upset a taxi driver from there.

I don't actually use insults like that in fact, but if I did they would not be automatically racist.

i personally feel there is no point

i also thikn that the language used was disgraceful and worthy of discussion as a tangent to the main issue

What Flappy said

just catching up on last few posts. well put becky and hear hear mp and lulu.

what onager said!

I get the feeling that people are only reading the posts that they want to read and commenting on those

Then labeling us all as bigots, nazis etc.

but comments like that are not automatically not racist either.. is it the person saying it just saying it about that person.. or is it how they feel about a race/religion as a whole? be it taxi drivers, jews or muslims

lil has been quite vociferous in saying that my over sensitivity is an issue, that it is pompous and arrogant to be offended. so shall i just keep it shut? because if i say i am offended, i am labelling others as anti semtitic or nazis.. even though i have not said that at all

Lil has a point about there being no way to disagree with the couple without being called racist.

So a challenge then. Lets hear how a post disgreeing should be phrased by one of the posters who are so offended by all this!

..go ahead..

i have not called anyone a bigot, nazi or anti semite

i have been called rude, oversensitive, arrogant and pompous

am really off now. it is pointless and just irritating me deeply

let's talk about any race we want , with any language we want, it is not racist, or anti semtitic, just free speech, innit?

I think someone could perfectly happily disagree with the couples actions without resorting to abuse (which is what many posts consisted of). No-one is stamping out debate. What people are objecting to are comments which come across as intolerant and bigoted. I struggle to see how anyone could not see that.

There were other points of view earlier on .... in between the cursing and off colour jokes.

Regarding atheism: it puzzles me how this seems now to be another kind of fundamentalism, rather than a personal world view with a place for tolerance and kindness. Guess we might have Prof Dawkins to thank for that.

But lulamama, how can you assume? If you knock someone down by accident and they say "watch where you are going you idiot!" do you say "Hey don't talk about jews (or women/blondes/whatever) that way!"

"..... whilst i do not begin to understand how important religious observance is to some people it clearly is to this couple... i find it odd and strange..... why is it important for orthodox jews to avoid turning on lights even in this indirect way... could someone explain??"

rather than

".... oy vey oy vey aren't religious jews a bunch of weirdos with their fucking stuoid superstitions and general oddness.... now they are in rome (?britain) they should do as we do (if we are white / irreligious / in any way different to them but part of the mainstream (delete as appropriate).... etc etc (i paraphrase).

hth

Beckysharp! did you just suggest that being atheist is a bad thing? isn't that like saying "Damn jews! they are everywhere now. I blame Moses!"

I don't think that switching on a light is contrary to God's law. However, I would also be entirely tolerant of this couple's requirement to have the light on permanently one day a week. But then, I'm no fundamentalist.