Burlesque - same as stripping, or an art form?

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Sorry if I'm a bit late with this one, but a quick MN search didn't suggest it's already been covered. Just seen this article saying that Camden Council have decided that burlesque is on a par with lapdancing etc. I would disagree, but I'd be interested in the response of others.

But yes, Oldlady is right - being found attractive is a very good confidence inducing thing. Especially when you don't find yourself attractive.

I have to agree with the corset comment. I just bought my first one and my confidence goes up leaps and bounds when I'm wearing it.

Dittany - I have spent my life trying to be confident with or without props. I haven't succeeded without, so occasionally it is nice to use a prop and feel decent about myself.

gscrym, I'm not a million miles away from Glasgow. Fancy a night out and we'll report back?

Oh, God, do you have to dress up to be in the audience at such a club? I'm sooooo scruffy!

gscrym - I got a custom made one last year and it is one of my best investments. I am planning on an underbust one for xmas 2010 (should be post baby shape etc by then )

I'm perfectly acceptable in what I'm wearing now (old pair of boxers, Fields of the Nephilim t-shirt, furry slippers). Or in a suit for work. Or gussied up in a corset, silky blouse & high heeled boots for a night out.

Equally, dh wears a big hat & a suit to perform with his band.

Wearing clothes that make you feel attractive & confident isn't a women-only thing.

Mine is a beautiful Snobz one. Kind of custom made - had different couloured panels put in. I went to a fabulous shop in Glasgow called Cyber. They have about 900 different corsets and the women who work there were lovely. DH is going to buy me another one for my birthday. Tis an expensive habit though.

Oldlady, where are you? The thing in Glasgow is called Club Noir. I may take you up on your offer after saturday nights festivities.

I'm near Kilmarnock, so only half an hour down the motorway. Club Noir looks interesting.

I was in your neck of the woods at the weekend. 3 Nights at the caravan park in Saltcoats.

What are you doing on Sunday 24th gscrym?

Will have to pass on the 24th. DH is away and I don't get paid till the following week. I'll check the calander for future things though.

Ah well. I wonder if I'm brave enough to go on my own?

wait for me, i'll be in scotland by the summer.

Ah, yes, you're moving to D&G, aren't you?

yes, but not very quietly.
should probably keep a lower profile.

I'll nip down the road with an old sheet. Greetings spray-painted on old sheets are very popular in this part of the country.

"WELCOME TO G&G, NEVERGOOGLEDRAGONBUTTER!!!!" will be displayed on a suitable bridge over the M74 in fluorescent orange and pink when you hope to arrive by stealth.

oh yes, classy.

I don't want to be unpleasantly argumentative about this (honest ) but I do think this is an important point WRT stripping/burlesque/lap-dancing and pretty much all forms of sexual display in our society:

'Wearing clothes that make you feel attractive & confident isn't a women-only thing.'

There is just NO equivalent of lingerie, corsets, stockings etc for men. There just isn't. There are things like mankinis and jock-straps, but they tend to induce hilarity rather than lust. We all find the idea of men dressing up to be sexy inherently funny - it's so ridiculous that all you can do is laugh.

There is a very basic and unequal divide here: women allowed to make sexual displays so long as they are appropriately attired, plucked, shaved and painted. Male sexuality is almost universally accepted in its natural form, give or take the odd man who shaves his chest or gets his balls waxed.

I've no wish to be humourlessly judgemental about what people get up to, honest. But I do think you have to admit that there is a damaging, insidious difference in the way men and women are viewed when it comes to sexuality. And if you're wondering why you (me included) lack confidence in your natural appearance, this is one of the explanations.

I don't think men are accepted in their 'natural form' tbh. I think if you look at a lot of men in the public eye they've been primped, and styled and worked in the gym. I think it's less obvious, but I think the societal pressure is still there. I'm not saying it's a good thing at all, but I don't believe it's strictly a female problem.

Anyway, to answer the OP. I don't see Burlesque as being the same as stripping. I've seen proper female strippers (thought I was being smart, was trying to shame the men I was with by going in there with them, but they didn't care and I found it incredibly disturbing, the whole atmosphere was replusive - I'll stand up for a woman's right to strip if she chooses, but it was nasty), I've seen male strippers (a million, million miles away from female stripping) and I've seen some burlesque (not in the flesh though) It's all different, from the acts to the expectations of the audience. Can't all be lumped into the same thing imo.

it's getting your kit off end of just more classy..

and I don't believe men did have the kind of pressure that women had until recently and still have less...some men naturally have 6 packs believe it or not ...and getting a hair cut and eyebrows plucked is no big deal (although if a bloke plucks without a uni-brow.. I find it scary) ..also we are talking about normal blokes not ones who are in the public eye...

What PW said.

Dittany - One of the things I like about burlesque is that I've seen women with hairy armpits, wrinkly stomachs etc perform and look amazing. You don't have to remove ANY clothing at all in burlesque. Has anyone seen Rita Hayworth singing 'Put the blame on Mame' in Gilda removing nothing but her long gloves? That would be just as acceptable as the more tassel twirling stuff.

PolicyWonk - I think women and men are viewed differently because we ARE very different sexually. Most women would find men in jock straps etc funny, men do find women in corsets etc sexy. I love the differences in our gender sexuality and love it when friends - gay and straight - mix it up a bit. We're not the same and I wouldn't want us to be.

I'm not disagreeing with you though - I have two daughters and a son and a post pregnancy body that I wouldn't fancy showing off in a teeny bikini. I want them to be comfortable and appreciative of people based on a lot more than their appearance and so far they seem to be. But the reason I like burlesque is because it IS a celebration of all types of body shape - it is very different to lapdancing (no contact with the audience for a start) and pub stripping. Different to the Spearmint Rhino sort of stuff too - much more natural. And dressing up is fun - OK Dh hates fancy dress, I love it. But have lots of make friends who go to town and females who find it tedious. But burlesque is about having fun with your body and that enjoyment comes across to the audience.

By natural I meant natural bodies - not surgically enhanced. So each performer looks very different to the one before.

Most of the audience at the burlesque clubs I've been to have been women. I think women have a more sophisticated sexuality than men. We can watch a burlesque performance and openly admire other women's bodies with no embarrassment at all. Where would you get a bunch of straight men watching other men dancing with that attitude?