Burlesque - same as stripping, or an art form?

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Sorry if I'm a bit late with this one, but a quick MN search didn't suggest it's already been covered. Just seen this article saying that Camden Council have decided that burlesque is on a par with lapdancing etc. I would disagree, but I'd be interested in the response of others.

well what do you think oldlady?

i think it's a valid debate.

i think when you add money into the equation it makes a difference to whether it is an art form or not.

The thread of the argument here seems to be: it's not stripping because it's well-lit/the performers aren't on hard drugs/the clothes are hand-made and all natural fibres/the performer had a copy of Time Out in her bag/the bar had complimentary bowls of olives.

These things are neither here nor there. It's taking your clothes off for money in public. It's stripping.

I'm not actually claiming it's art dittany! Well, not high art anyway...

Yes, it's usual for the performer to end up mostly or completely nude.

Totally different vibe to pub stripping. I'm an ex-landlady who's done relief management (stop sniggering at the back...) so sadly familiar with the grey girls & their needle tracks - burlesque is a world away.

and if you don't do it for money or in public?

Oh well, do what you like in private. I mean, the word for taking your clothes off in a sexy way is still 'stripping', but I can see a pretty clear distinction between someone doing it in private for their husband/partner/whatevs and doing it in public for money.

I still think it's a bit of shame that women feel they need all this stuff to be sexy (classes, costumes, music, lighting, make-up, scratchy underwear etc) whereas men just turn up, take their kit off and fully expect people to find them sexy just as they are.

I think there is a difference between doing this kinda thing for a large audience and/or monetary gain, as opposed to for yourself or to spice things up in the bedroom with your dp.

Originally Burlesque was more about comedy and performance than stripping

In fact I didn't realise it was about stripping until I just read it on Wikipedia, despite attending a Burlesque party last week (n.b. there was no stripping)

Most of the performers I've met in RL or on gothic forums are doing it for fun, tbh. They might do a bit of alternative modelling too, or be in a band.

It's seen as a legitimate entertainment enjoyed & participated in by male & female, gay & straight, some transgendered, conventionally gorgeous & more individual performers.

Really, it's not 'taking your clothes off for money in public'.

There are clubs who've cottoned onto burlesque as a 'classier' description of ye olde strip night, I've no doubt, but it's not really what it's about.

I'm going for a Burlesque lesson on saturday but have been interested for ages. I'm dying to go to the Burlesque club in Glasgow but can't find anyone to agree to go with me. DH is panicking that after I come back from this lesson, it's going to be a hobby for me. To be honest, I'm about as sexy as a lump of wood so it might not be a bad thing from his point of view. After having googled it lots, I like the variety and glamour of what I've seen so far. I may be wrong and naive. I look forward to the weekend with corsets, frilly knickers and anything else I can have a go with. I'd kill to look like Dita Von Teese.

As for being an art form, is that not up to each individual?

My first experience of it was the film Gypsy with Natalie Wood.

what is wrong with stripping anyway?

If it ain't hurting anyone etc (not if the stripper is being sold into slavery/selling of gina ford books etc obv)

"well what do you think oldlady?"

Sorry, was off having RL discussion with DS2 (about black culture, neds, personal hygiene in the kitchen, contemporary street preachers and euthanasia by physician.)

I've never seen burlesque in RL, and the only stripper I've seen was 30 years ago (near enough) in the Pubic Triangle in Edinburgh on a wet lunchtime, and she looked about as jolly as the weather. It certainly wasn't an erotic experience. On the other hand, I used to know a woman who worked as a stripper and she was as brassy and self-confident as they come, no nonsense about her and she certainly wasn't being abused or exploited in her eyes.

I now know a woman who's very into burlesque (but she lives in London and I've never seen her perform) and again, she's a lovely woman, very confident and so on - I can't see that as exploitative either.

I'd love to try something like burlesque. Not now obv, the bump really wouldn't work with it all...

DS2 is four right?

For me, I wouldn't give a sht what the men are there for. I* would have confidence from it. Yes, I am a terrible unempowered soul destroyed woman for getting confidence from something like that, but meh, I am happy to live with that.

I've had a look through the Ministry Of Burlesque forum and it seems friendly and any questions I've asked were answered and the people seemed friendly.

I just think the stuff I've seen and read about seems beautiful and the women seem to enjoy what they do. And as Flamesparrow says, what's wrong with stripping? I may be going to a strip club for a works do. The joys of being the only woman in my area.

"By nevergoogledragonbutt... Wed 06-May-09 21:36:04
DS2 is four right?"

And a bit. He'll be 19 in August.

The confidence would be from the performance, costume etc. Putting on my corset makes me feel confident whether I am out getting "oogled at" or wandering round my house by myself.

I can see how you could gain confidence by being ogled at, yes. Clear evidence that you're found attractive.

Honestly dittany, quite a lot of them are onstage at the event I'm familiar with.

The others are enjoying the performance. If it's breasts, bums, & bits, they can see all of those elsewhere in a more overt atmosphere & without their dps to cramp their style.