Page 6 | Marnie Pearce - latest from Amnesty

Ballina · 28/04/2009 14:31

I still don't get your point Wannabe. If that is true it's even more outrageous. But we should all sit on our hands and whistle dixie?

wannaBe · 28/04/2009 14:44

How hard can it be? ?

If it is regarding an individual who you personally know then of course, campaign to have her situation changed. But realistically you can only campaign for laws in other countries to be changed if you are willing to acknowledge that others have the right to campaign against laws in our country, and that includes people having the right to campaign for stricter laws if that's what they believe.

So for instance, you might campaign for the death penalty to be abolished in a certain country. But equally, someone in that country would then surely have the right to campaign for the introduction of the death penalty in your country.

It works both ways.

Ballina · 28/04/2009 14:53

Oh I see, you should only campaign for universal human rights if it's someone you know. Amnesty International should disband immediatly!

I'm very glad that moral relativism is only a concept within postmodern academia, because we'd all be up shit creek otherwise.

There are basic human rights WannaBe. It's one thing to campaign for them and quite another to say 'you should be like me/us. Thats why it doesnt actually work 'both ways'. Knowing that is very useful. The world has not collapsed into reletivism just becasue western postmodernism studies have.

Saint2shoes · 28/04/2009 15:40

wannaBe I was trying to look at both sides, it is easy to paint the man as a monster, but I like to read both sides, if she had brought the children back here and gone for custody, she would have most likely got it. our laws are pretty weighted on the mums side. so he would have lost his children. maybe he was desperate, so used his country's laws......

wannaBe · 28/04/2009 18:43

absolutely 2shoes. And equally there are women who would make up lies about their husbands in order to prevent them having access to their children.

As for the custody issue, well it's not wrong to award custody to a father IMO, any more than it is wrong to award custody to a mother. Predominantly in this country custody is awarded to the mother, and I'm sure there are fathers out there who feel this is unfair.

Ballina · 29/04/2009 08:35

I'ce never painted the man as a monster 2shoes. If this bloke were simply having an affair and leaving his wife, we'd not be hearing about it. The reall difference is the law of the land. That's what people are challenging here. This is more than 'lies' and marital dispute, however spiteful. This is a tyranny. Whatever suspicions you hols wioth Marnie, or sympathies you hold with the father, the issue is the misogyny of the law, that is what is being challenged. If you agree with the law, say so. If you don't, write to your MP.

"As for the custody issue, well it's not wrong to award custody to a father IMO, any more than it is wrong to award custody to a mother. Predominantly in this country custody is awarded to the mother, and I'm sure there are fathers out there who feel this is unfair." Okay, well now I begin to see where you might be coming from. You seem to be equating this issue with the western fathers rights issues, for whatever reaosn, but it is a completley seperate issue. Menin this country are not imprisoned on the say so of women; men see their kids regulalry - the fact that breaking up is hard with someone you loved enough to have a child with (whether you are male or female) and now feel consumed with bitterness at it's failure is not the issue.

It's not wrong to award custody to the father whenhe would be a better parent than the mother. But againb that's a different issue. Please look at the facts and try not to cloud them with your own emotions on fathers rights. This is a basic human rights issue.

Bucharest · 29/04/2009 10:37

And look at the video clip again and tell me what kind of father would put his children throught that to score points.

Saint2shoes · 29/04/2009 11:18

Ballina you seem to forget this is an internet forum, people can ask what they want.
this thread is about marnie pearce, not the law in another country.

Ballina · 29/04/2009 12:28

Right back at you 2shoes - with a pretty clumsy attempt to change the subject - no one has insisted you do anything. I have asked you to "Please look at the facts and try not to cloud them with your own emotions on fathers rights." If you refuse to/don't want to, that's you that's your entitlement. But it doesn't help your argument.

And no one can dictate the context of this thread. The MP issue is huge and complex. It can't be confined to the shallow and innane. It has huge implications for the rights for women in the middle east.

Saint2shoes · 29/04/2009 13:05

I do realise that.
BUT I was trying to look at the bigger picture of this case.

Ballina · 29/04/2009 14:48

We're not going to begin to change misoginous laws by twiddling iur thumbs and looking at the bigger picture though. The domestics of this aren't really anyones concern but the people involved. The fact the law exists is, for me and most of the people who did write to their MPs and sign the petition. It's fine to look at the bigger picture, that doesn't stop you doing other things too does it?

Saint2shoes · 29/04/2009 15:18

oh I get it, so this is nothing to do with MP and is only to do with changing the law in another country. now I understand, sorry then it has been my mistake, I read the tread title and thought this was about MP.

wannaBe · 29/04/2009 18:38

So what good has this case actually done for the changing of laws in Dubai then? Yes Marnie Pearce has now been released and that is good for her. But the petition was never handed in. In fact the handing in of the petition was halted because it was announced that her deportation would be reconsidered.

I think that if the ultimate goal was to challenge the laws in Dubai, then the authorities have got one up on the campaigners on this one. Because by freeing the one, they keep the attention away from the many.

Ballina · 30/04/2009 07:55

And what do you base that assumption on other than your own bloody mindedness? I'm very glad to say that this has done a lot to raise awareness of womens rights in the middle east. Even this convo and especially with your dogged determination to assert the negatives, has done exactly the opposite for people reading. Thanks for helping out.

wannaBe · 30/04/2009 09:44

really? so how many other women in Dubai were released early on Monday? Would be interested to know.

Now that Marnie has been released, it is no longer newsworthy. And while of course amnesty etc will be fighting for rights for women in these countries (although one would assume they were doing that already), as there is no longer a British woman at the centre of all this, the majority of Brits will go back to not caring about what happens in other countries. Those that care most likely already were aware of the situation in the middle east.

Saint2shoes · 30/04/2009 10:16

Ballina you are very rude

stainesmassif · 30/04/2009 10:32

I am confused by this argument. There seem to be so many objections to a campaign to aid a woman's release and reunition with her children on a forum that the op would have assumed was going to be supportive.

I don't see a problem with her using MN in this context. There are also MP groups on Facebook and no one seems to have questioned the originators' other uses of Facebook. What is wrong with using MN to raise awareness on this issue?

The argument that we don't campaign to change laws in other countries that are unfair to other women based on the chance that our own laws may be campaigned against - if they are unfair laws I would be pleased to hear that others were campaigning on our behalf.

Who is to say that raising awareness of Marnie's case hasn't raised awareness of other women's plight? If even one more person has joined Amnesty - who apparently are still working on Marnie's behalf - as a result of the OP posting on this, isn't that a good thing?

If we expected to see laws change overnight as a result of Marnie's release I'm sure everyone would agree that we'd be extremely naive. This is how the status quo is changed. Infintessimally. By degree. By raising awareness. By contacting and finding people who care enough to sign a petition, write to their MP, join an organisation like Amnesty.

Again, BL, keep up the good work, it is really appreciated.

Bucharest · 30/04/2009 10:35

Well said.

Ballina · 30/04/2009 12:31

Well this is a democracy. The right to offend is worth fignting for no? [wink}

stainesmassif · 30/04/2009 17:27

speaking as a liberal eminem fan, I have to agree!

Saint2shoes · 30/04/2009 17:43

eminem now that is offensive......to my ears

stainesmassif · 30/04/2009 19:09

I'm sure that's a debate for another thread - and i'm not sure it's one that i'd like to enter into!

Ballina · 01/05/2009 16:00

I get the same emotional response from Marah Carey!

Original poster

BizzieLizzie1 · 03/05/2009 09:58

Enimen...??? Now I would have to agree with 2shoes on that one!!

OP posts:

Original poster

BizzieLizzie1 · 03/05/2009 10:03

Here are a couple of articles in today's press, for those of you who may be interested:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1176777/I-beg-photos-children-British-mother-jailed-Dubai-adultery- tells-harrowing-tale.html

www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/05/02/freed-mum-marnie-pearce-tells-of-nightmare-in-dubai-pri son-115875-21327113/

OP posts: