Marnie Pearce - latest from Amnesty

[BizzieLizzie1]

www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=18171

Eeeek- a friend sent me a link- disclaimer- Im In Italy, we don't get the Mail or anything!

But what if she didn't have an affair MM? What could she have done in a country where her husband knew he only had to provide 5 used condoms and his word against his to rip
Marnie's and her kids life asunder?

his word against hers I mean

I didn't say she did have an affair, I'm talking about actions in general, something as innocent as having a coffee with another man is a seriously bad idea.

I'm not saying I agree with it at all, but surely she was aware that unless she was really careful & toed the line etc she could risk serious repercussions.

I don't agree with what's happening to her or her sons & I certainly don't agree with the way woman are treated/expected to behave out there. I'm just saying unless you're impeccably behaved & act the way a woman "should" there are risks.

It doesn't mean I agree with what's happening.

nobody is saying that these laws are right. But fact is, they exist. So if you go to a country where adultery is a crime then you know that if you commit adultery and get caught there is a penalty.

The ideal situation would be for these laws to be abolished, but until they are, then imo when you go to one of these countries you abide by the laws or face the consequences.

As for Marnie pearce, well tomorrow she will apparently be released. And then she can pursue custody of her children over in Dubai, but at that point the British media surely won't remain involved. Custody is after all none of the media's concern. So in reality dubai authorities will have got what they want. Marnie will be released, however the charge stands, therefore it's unlikely she will get her children back, but now there will be no pressure from anyone - no government is going to intervene in the custody case of a woman abroad.

No adultery is not the issue Wannabe. The issue is that this is state supported misogyny and any husband can do this to a wife when they want. His word is all that counts.

no that is too simplistic.

The fact is that Marnie pearce was discovered with a man. Now they were apparently clothed and drinking tea, but under muslim law a woman cannot be alone in the presence of a man who is not her husband or who she is not related to.

She had lived in dubai long enough to know that, surely.

No the law is not right. But until the law can be got rid of (if this were ever to happen) one must accept that if you break the laws in a country, then you may be harshly punished.

I also agree with FAQ in that these laws need to be challenged for all women, not just the British ones who happen to make it into the media.

She may be unlikely to get the children back.....but she should at least be getting contact with them if she's not being deported, shouldn't she?

It is, in mine and many others opinioon, just that simple Wannabe. Whateber reason you are harbouring for thinking this woman 'should have known better' - (that's what often say when a woman is raped too, and it's just as abhorant, IMO). I am not saying you are saying that, but I think there's a fine line in reasoning between one and the other. They are both blaming the victim and absolving the agressor.

How do you suggest the law be challenged if not by actions like this, but raising awareness, by petitions, writing to MP's, discussing on democratic forms where it's allowed?! How is saying she should have known better helping?

The law will not be abolished until people make a fuss of injustices like this. The alternative is that ee leave countless women to rot until the Dubai authorities realse the error of theior ways themselves. Which just aint going to happen

I don't want to be unduely bolshy about this Wannabe, but I cannot see how you can defend your stance onb a moral level. The facts ar every clear here. The law is misogynous, and thats a word I don't use often. It could be used to define what misoginous law looks like. It exists for the pure benefit of men to either control their wives freedom of movemnet or get rid of them when they want. It is that simple.

because they are somebody's else's laws Ballina

your position is not sustainable

campaign and so on yes

but disagreeing with a law does not mean we can ignore it

I don't agree with wannabe but your position is a bit flaky

Trying to change the laws of a country of which you are not a citizen doesn't seem very democratic tbh

Exactly bored. I don?t agree with the law either, but just because you don?t agree with a law doesn?t mean that breaking it is ok. And if you know that a law exists, you know that if you are caught breaking that law means that you may have to face the consequences.

And if you are campaigning for such a law to be abolished, then it should be on behalf of all women in Dubai surely? Not just the one British one who happened to live there and break said law. Otherwise you are sending out the message that the law is ok for dubai citizens, but not for British ones.

Which brings us round again to the argument that it's better not to campaign at all than to campaign for one individual who may represent dozens or even hundreds of women in that country ?

Wannabe, if one of your friends or relatives was in this situation, would you just accept it? If one lived in a muslim country where they allowed themselves to be in the company of another man, was raped and found themselves sentenced to death by stoning because their abusive husband was hellbent on punishing them by having them charged with adultery - would you say, I'm sorry but she had lived in the country long enough to have known better, and that she should have behaved impeccably? Do you always behave impeccably (I certainly don't!), never make unwise decisions (I certainly do!), never break the law? Should Marnie Pearce's children also be facing these consequences? Can you speak for the people campaigning on Marnie and her childrens' behalf? Do you know for a fact that none of the women/men involved in the campaign already campaign on other women's behalf, or that none of them will go on to do so - or that this campaign will never highlight these issues for others and quite possibly go on to benefit the lives of other women? You say that by Marnie Pearce being able to remain in Dubai to fight her custody case, that the Dubai Authorities actually have what they want. Can you speak for the Dubai authorities? That the media will have no interest. Can you speak for the media? That there will now be no pressure from anyone. Can you speak for Amnesty? Have you asked them about that? Or spoken to her campaign team or her supporters? Because I don't think you'll find that her campaign team will be quitting! Do you know for a fact that Marnie Pearce would have been better off to have been deported, and to have fought her case from the UK? There are a lot of people who disagree with you there.

bl you cannot possibly compare a woman who is raped with one who knowingly does something that is against the law of a country.

A woman who is raped has no choice. And surely no-one in their right mind would argue that a woman who is raped deserves to be stoned to death.

Not once have I said that it is right that anyone be jailed for adultery. But the fact is, if you go to a country where adultery is illegal and carries a prison sentence, and you have an affair, then you do so knowing that if you are caught there is a chance you will be sent to jail. In the same way that if you do drugs in this country and are caught you may be sent to jail, or break the speed limit you will receive a fine, or any number of other laws people break on a daily basis.

And no I have never broken the law.

That's right Saint2Shoes, as you have pointed out before I am very odd! Perhaps I should also view with suspicion the fact that you only post in my threads, when I disagree with your friend, and to tell me that. I have wondered in fact, whether this is perhaps more about your own experience in life and you are projecting that onto me. I actually recently joined Mumsnet, with a view that I might post in all sorts of threads. I spent a while looking in different threads, seeing the sorts of things that people were discussing, but experienced what I felt was bullying and actually a bit of ganging up - I didn't like that and I am not sure that Mumsnet is really for me. I have read that the 'oiks' join Netmums - I am wondering if they are also the lawbreakers and the badly behaved - and whether I might be better placed there? I'm off to light a spliff and give it a go! Hey, hopefully they've got a sense of humour! I wish you all love and kindness. XXXXXXXX

pmsl at the badly behaved joining netmums! Good luck with that, hun.

BizzieLizzie, don't go!! it is really important to have people on MN raising awareness about this - even if you don't always get the response you would hope for there are others that appreciate your efforts. I've been following Marnie's case and was delighted to hear the news this morning, and thanks for bringing the campaign to my attention, for one.

Don't go BizzieLizzie - I think MN is big enough for us all.

how weird

it was just on the local news that she has been released and isn't being deprted, but will be staying to fight for custody.

I really hope she gets to see her children.

The 'oik' thing about NM is a bad joke. Feel free to go or stay.