Row over Secret Classroom Filming (Channel 5) Next Wednesday

[JoolsToo]

any thoughts?

Might make interesting viewing.

I agree with the reporter that children want discipline and guidance - of course they try it on, but they want and need clear direction of what is acceptable and what is not.

I have been working as a teaching assistant in a secondary school since last September and I can confirm what everyone else has said about last nighr's programme - this is the reality of life in many of the classes I try to support. I was really shocked by some of the children's behaviour when I first started working at the school, which is by no means a bad school,but sadly I have become somewhat immune to bad language and general lack of respect shown to staff and fellow pupils. I did once try to intervene when a pupil told the teacher to shut up, but received a mouthful of abuse, so I tend to be very wary of getting involved in any confrontation now, as I don't want to make things more difficult for the teacher.

As is usually the case, it is the minority spoiling things for the majority. I feel really sorry for the kids who want want to learn, but who can't concentrate due to the noise levels in the classroom and the constant low level disruption, which undermines the teacher's ability to deliver the lesson. I would say that in half of the classes I go into, the children have learnt nothing at all in the time they are there. This really saddens me as I thought part of the reason I am employed is to help raise the children's academic attainment. Quite often I contribute nothing to the lesson apart from standing in the doorway acting as a bouncer to make sure the kids don't escape.

Having said this, there are some excellent teachers with whom I work, who know how to control behaviour by setting clear and firm boundaries. They have no problems with discipline and they also tend to be interesting in their teaching, demanding high standards and often getting them by engaging the children and rousing their interest. The teacher in the documentary did say that part of the problem may be due to the students not being intellectually challenged. I have certainly sat through some very ill prepared, badly structured and unstimulating lessons and I'm sure that boredom is often an important factor contributing to disruptive behaviour.

Evening Xanthe, haven't seen you here for a v. long time. Welcome back.

The woman agreed that she wasn't a good teacher. I would tend to agree that having structure helps to foster good behaviour.

But many of these children obviously had no intention of listening to anyone say anything or do any work at all.

None of the classes I teach are as bad as the ones shown. However I teach pleanty of children who come to school with no intention of doing any work. The see it as an insult that you ask them to do anything. And this is what needs to be sorted out.

And they honesly think that they will walk straight out of school with no qualifications into a job that paid big money and requires no work from them

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You can try and then they look at you as if you are quite mad.

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Only caught a bit of this but thought teh teacher came over as so ripe to be wound up by teh pupils - tone of voice etc all seemed to make her a very easy target. I went to school in 70's and 80's and certainly remember supply and student teachers having go put up with disruption like this. Not defending any of that, just saying didn't find it very shocking

On the TES website teachers are busy slagging the woman off saying that if only she had given the children interesting work to do and put the objectives on the board, they all would have behavid. Yer Right!

So when someone nuts a doctor in A&E it is his fault because he didn't treat them fast enough? And a rape victim is to blame for leading him on?

Whatever happened to kids taking responsibility for their actions? So some things are dull, so is life ffs. And the jobs that some of these kids will end up doing wil be sooooooo dull. So what will they do? nut someone or tell the boss the fuck off?

Expecting kids to sit in their their seats and listen is a basic requirement.

I think that students trying to down load pictures of anal sex in a lesson was shocking. So was a 13 or so year old telling a teacher to Fuck off. How many other jobs expect people to put up with shit like this?

Most of my lessons were dull as dishwater but I never told my teachers to F*ck off! Just because you're bored doesn't give you the right to be abusive or disruptive.

And it is the other kids in the class that I feel most sorry for. Why should they have their education disrupted in this way?

Blimey, have put up with language like that many a time in my job. Like I said, am not defending, but certainly did experience teachers being told to f* off at school. And kids brought porn mags into school.

Knew there was a reason I got out. It is never acceptable IMO for a pupil to tell their teacher to F off, or similar. It is simply rude, impolite and disrespectful.

Behaviour in schools has declined dramaatically recently IME and not helped by lack of discpipline strategies.

If my inmates swore at me, or even spoke to me in a disrecspectful way, they would be removed from the room immediately and go up against the governor for a nicking. It would simply not be allowed at all.

In schools the kids know all about their rights and nothing of their responsibilities. Not every school I know, but far too many of them.

I think that there is a bit of a difference between a child bringing a porn magasine into school (though that is bad enough) and another to spend time in a lesson looking for porn on the internet.

Just out of interest, what do you do? I do hope that you are not just expected to put up with people telling you to fuck off....no-one should have to do that.

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We do but you can't block it all. We have kids who are such good hackers they are banned from the internet

I'll say I'm a govt official, don't want the whole on mn telling me to f off now. I don't get it on a daily basis in job I do now but in other jobs (in same dept) have had stuff thrown at me and told I'm a fing c* etc and that it's hoped all my kids die etc by some extremely unpleasant characters.

If computers had been available at school then then don't really see a difference between looking for it on internet and looking in a mag. Agree, why are there not filters on it?

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During lesson time, when they should be usiong the computer to do something for the lesson. I think that porn has no place in school at all. Howvere I am less pissed off if it is read at break time than wasting time in lessons!

Cod, honeslty. even with safe search on if you google on non US/uk google sites you can find stuff. And some of our little hackers are so good they can disable the security systems. One was logging on and deleting other kids work!

Tinker I don't think that anyone should have to put up with being threatened and abused in work. Not teachers, not anyone. And if we end up letting kids get away with it to us, they will be even worse by the time they get to you! What sort of society will we have if we don't think that this is wrong and do something about it?

I completely agree with you hmb. Like I said, I'm not defending the behaviour I was just not shocked by the bits I watched. And I went to a Cathholic school with scary nuns!

Blimey, a convent girl!!!!!!
I must say that it didn't happen when i was in a crappy comp in S Wales in the 70s. You'd have had the crap beaten out of you by the staff and your parents if it had!

why did the Ofsted reports seem to be at odds with what we were seeing? that's worrying

Because OFSTED is a farce! Schools play the game because they know if they don''t the report will be bad and the kids choosing to go to the school will get even worse.

Teachers play the game becase no-one wants to be seen as failing.

The kids will be a bit better since they are generaly too streetwise to misbehave very badly if there are two adults in the room (witness you see)

Schools will sometimes send more troublesome kids home for 'study leave'

All a load of paper shuffling cobblers