Pregnant Woman Told To Leave Pub

[stinkymonkey]

the nanny state continues

I can understand where the landlord is coming from, though I don't agree with what she did.

That could be a factor, Boffin, but perhaps the recession, the smoking ban and tax/cost of business rising is the real reason.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I'm not as outraged as some at this story.

I was embarrassed to drink in public when I had a bump. People around you don't know if it's your first or your fifth.

I haven't read the 12 pages as I don't have time now, but if she was showing signs of settling in for a night of boozing, then I wouldn't want to line up to demonise the bar staff. Fairplay to them that they put somebody else's baby before profits. That wouldn't have happened twenty years ago, and I think it's progress.

Methinks folks might be giving your question, an excellent one IMO, a wide berth because foetal rights is a commonly used vehicle for anti-abortionists to push their agenda.

Sorry, that was to Daisy .

actually, the reason pubs are going out of business is due to changes in legistlation, a 20% hike in beer tax and a poor economy.

DaisyMooSteiner on Wed 01-Apr-09 09:08:37
Can I ask a question of those who think it was right that this woman was refused service: at the moment the fetus has no legal rights until after birth (other than it being illegal to perform an abortion on a 'healthy' fetus after 24 weeks). Would you support a change in the law to give the fetus legal rights which compel a woman to give up smoking, drinking etc and to heed medical advice, including a cesarean section if doctors recommended it?

actually no to all of those. i think that the landlord was right to refuse service on the basis of the laws that he runs his business by. i dont drink or smoke while pg because the baby is more important than cravings or having a couple of beers. but thats my choice. i also have more slightly personal reasons, but this isnt the thread.

I'm totally pro-choice. But there's still something quite upsetting about observing a heavily pregnant woman puffing away with a drink in her paw.

I wouldn't judge anybody who decided they weren't up to motherhood, but if you're taking on the job, try not to poison your foetus!!

But how far would you take the pub landlord role as 'guardian of children and society'? Would you refuse to serve the parent who is sat there drinking what you assume to be the week's housekeeping money?

I'm always amazed at women who can drink like fish and smoke during pregnancy.

Or even eat loads and loads.

I had wretched nausea for months with all three of mine, which then morphed into acid reflux from hell.

Had dreadful anaemia with them, too, wanted to go to my bed, not out to a pub.

BARF.

if i knew it was the housekeeping money, then i would.

expat, i was working in a pub/restaurant while pg with ds and the smell of smoke and alcohol made me vom all day. ended up in the office because of it!

sorry Lissielou, that question wasn't pointed at you particularly, it was more a response to Margot's point about putting someone else's baby before profits

Lissie, your argument extends the landlord's legal right to refuse service too far. Although a landlord is not obliged to serve anyone, he cannot legally refuse to serve a person for discriminatory reasons, i.e. the right of people to not be discriminated against overrides the landlord's right to refuse service. Treating someone differently on the basis of their pregnancy is discriminatory (and therefore is an exception to the landlord's general right to refuse service). It it, therefore, not permissible for a landlord to elect to "take an aspect of the objectives more seriously than some of his counterparts" in this area, regardless of how selfless his intentions are. While I have no problem with landlords being responsible and not selling alcohol to people who have clearly had enough (wish there were more that would do that!) I do take issue with people who appoint themselves the "pregnancy police", especially on the basis that a lot of people on the street actually aren't up to speed with current recommendations in any event.

anyway, been on here nigh on all day. its been a pleasure - shall wander into my lecture tomorrow armed with some good points, off to kill dh for not recording dirty sexy money

sorry but WSH, if he feels that it is against the customers best intrests to serve them, he can. if a customer who he/she knows is taking medication that is incompatible with alcohol orders a double vodka, should the landlord serve them because it is their own business or should they say "no, this may harm the customer"?

It's a subject that we could all theorise over for hours. Where do you draw the line?

It's her human right to drink too much, and her human right apparently to shout indignantly from the rooftops when people remind her she's carrying a child.

But I wish I didn't have to read about it.

Have fun at the lecture at you for still having lectures and interesting things to do with your day (while I get to sit at a desk...)

lol WSH, it will be a v dull lecture, half the class are taking their licensee exams so 'twill be mainly going over old ground.

Lissie, re your question about the customer who was on medication, refusal in that case would be absolutely fine. That situation is different in two respects: first, the reason for refusal is specific to that person and secondly because the harmful consequences of drinking will be visited on the customer himself.

Oh, gawd, lissie! YUK. I used to have to hold a carrier bag when I rode the bus home in the evenings whilst pregnant. Just one person with BO or stinky aftershave or cheap perfume and I was going to hurl.

I'd pass smoky pubs and have to find an alley to vomit into my carrier bag.

And I lived in Leith which is lined with pubs.

And there were all those lies about how it was supposed to go away after the first trimester.

Bollocks!

Whenever you pass a pavement pizza, it's not always a drunk person who's had an accident! Sometimes it's a poor preggo who can't stand the smell of smoke, alcohol and urine.

Hmm, sounds less interesting than you might like. Can you sneak your ipod in ?

expat, i remember with my 4th pg i threw up in the high street. walked past a cake shop and bleurgh.

before i found out i was pg with ds the chef served a roast pork for me to take out and i threw up in the commis' bin

WSH, think i might just skip it tbh, shame because was looking forward to having this debate in the lecture. not often a case like this arises.

God, it is hard to know where to start back here.
Lissie, just want to say you have made some excellent points

DaisyMooSteiner - in response to your question:
'at the moment the fetus has no legal rights until after birth (other than it being illegal to perform an abortion on a 'healthy' fetus after 24 weeks). Would you support a change in the law to give the fetus legal rights which compel a woman to give up smoking, drinking etc and to heed medical advice, including a cesarean section if doctors recommended it?'

No. I am completely pro-choice, and I don't think a pregnant woman should be banned from drinking. No one told this woman she couldn't drink.

However, a licensee holds a license for a reason. He or she has, as Lissie has already pointed out, been through training, sat exams, and been fully background checked to ensure they are suitable to be licensed for the responsible sale of alcohol. If they feel, in their professional opinion, that they do not wish to serve someone, then they are perfectly within their rights to do so.

I am not sure I agree that it is sex discrimination 'because men can't get pregnant'. There are clubs and bars that don't allow men or women in, and people would be refused entry based on their sex. This is at the discretion of the licensee, and as such is exempt from being classed as discriminatory.

If I had someone in my establishment who was doing something I didn't want them to, I should be free to ask them to go elsewhere and carry about their business.

To suggest that licensees should allow behaviour that they feel is inappropriate is ridiculous. It is their bar. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

Sorry - should elaborate on the sex discrimination bit:

Men physically cannot get pregnant, so is doing something based on pregnancy really sex discrimination?

Women can't play premier league football. Is this sex discrimination? They would be perfectly capable, but aren't allowed. Why is this not illegal?

Yes, (in employment law at least) anything pregnancy related is automatically sel discrimination. From the thing I linked to, it looks as though that applies to the sale of goods and services as well.
It is a bit counter intuitive, but basically discrimination is only discrimation if it's on the grounds of sex, race, age, disability, ethnicity, or sexuality (I think that's them).

So then why are women not allowed to play football for premiership teams, for example?

If a man is asked to be clean shaven for work, and comes into work with a beard, and is sent home, why is this not sex discrimination? It wouldn't happen to a woman, because they don't grow beards.

So why is is sex discrimination for a woman to be treated differently when she is pregnant, if men can't get pregnant?