Baby killed by family dogs

[littleducks]

Cant believe there is another story like this:

news.aol.co.uk/family-dogs-maul-baby-to-death/article/2009020713191350252763

Very sad , being an owner of a staffy this realy upsets me. I would never leave any dog alone with a small child, no dog can be trusted 100%, staffys are known as nanny dogs as they will protect children, my autistic daughter spends a lot of time with our staff and she has never shown any sign of agression towards a person or dog. Too many Staffs and Rotties are getting into the wrong hands as people use them as to make statement and miss treat them. Rescue homes are full of miss treated staffs . I think dog owners (of any breed) should have a licence to own a dog.

Any dog can bite, its just the fact that rotties and Bull teriers are powerful dogs and can cause a lot more damage than a jack russell.

we rehomed our Staffy with a close friend with no kids when Ds2 was born as I wasn't happy to have a baby and a dog as powerful as a staffy together. I trusted the dog, but its stories like this which scared me enough to rehome him. I have 2 cats now and thats how it will stay until the kids have left home now.

There is no such thing as a completely safe dog. ANY dog can bite - my dp has scars on his face from when he was bitten by his grandparent's completely safe and friendly mongrel when he was a baby. I HATE it when dog owners do that "Oh he wouldn't hurt a fly - he's completely safe" routine. NO HE ISN"T -he's a dog, a potentially dangerous animal and should be treated as such.

Thankgod for the sensible realistic posters on this thread. We have 3 dogs and they are restricted to where they can go in the house and know their place in teh pack. Dd cant enter the room where they are by herself and know not to anyway. They are never left alone with her, ever.
We get loads of benefits from having them although they can be a pain at times.
Personally I wouldnt have a staffy. I dont like their tough look/image and I dont like that they arent good with other dogs. WHen we researched them we were told by several people who had them that they should be kept on a lead at all times when out. Not worth it imo.
ROtties - wouldnt have one although no problem with them as a breed if they have decent owners who know what they are doing. Too intelligent for us and you need to really know what you are doing.

I guess the message is as the police say - never leave them alone with children but surely we know that anyway.

ilovemydogandMrObama but time and time again I have seen posts from people on mn saying things like "my dogs are sog, my kids have been known to pull their ears/tail/pull themselves up on their fur and the dogs have never even snapped/will just walk away." The fact that the dogs haven't snapped/will just walk away is irelevant. Children shouldn't be pulling ears/tails in the first place, and if parents are of the opinion that dogs and children shouldn't be left together alone then they will be close enough to avoid this ever happening, so even the children still being babies is no excuse for this behavior to be allowed to happen.

How very sad, poor poor baby and my heart goes out to the family.

I have 2 dogs and a 14.5mo DD and a LO on the way. My dogs and my DD are NEVER left alone. I do trust my dogs, but not to the extent of my DD's safety.

Our front and back room have been knocked through and we have a room divider in the archway to keep DD and dogs apart. We also have a tall stair gate at the kitchen door. The dogs spend most of their time in the kitchen and garden (doggy door in back door) and only come into the rooms once DD is safely upstairs in bed.

My brother once said to me that I wasn't fair keeping the dogs out they were here first (he doesn't have DC, can you tell) and that if I think they would ever turn then I should get rid of them.

I don't know if they will ever turn, I do trust them but not 100%, my DD is my one and only priority now. She is getting to that stage of wanting to be with the dogs and play, but she doesn't understand that she cant pull their ears/tails etc, so we keep them apart.

Yes maybe to a small extent dog breed has something to do with it, but I still firmly believe that most of the time it comes down to the owner(s).

My brother has a staffie and he is a lovely dog, but their is something about him (my bro's dog not my bro lol) that I can't quite get to grips with IYSWIM. That is why I insist that if my parents want DD at their house then my brothers dog is not to be there.

Poor little baby, how many little ones have to die before people realise you can't leave dogs alone with children?

I am not a dog owner but grew up with dogs from birth so have an affection for them but I wouldn't leave a baby with a labradoodle never mind a staff.

I have just read my post back, I know it doesn't sound like it but I do love dogs and was brought up with them.

I was however bitten many times by my grandparents dog, because I was allowed to pull his ears/tail/fur etc. It hasn't stopped me loving dogs, just made me more aware of the dangers and to take precautions when it comes to children of any age.

OMG poor baby and family

Its just awful

WannaBe OK, you're right of course . I took your comments as directed at me personally which to a certain extent they were.

Yes, DD has pulled the dogs ears on occasion, but has been punished for it too.

The dogs aren't play things; they are dogs, and while this thread has highlighted the negative things about having dogs and kids, the flip side is that DD is also learning about treatment of animals/others,compassion and basic humanity. She was distressed when one of the dogs hurt his leg and wanted to help. So, she is learning at an early age (hopefully!) that other species require care.

The dogs are also a lot of fun -- we love taking them for a walk, which gets us all out of the house and watching them swim, run and chase each other.

Haven't read whole thread... it's tragic, but quite honestly, if people haven't learned from previous cases then I don't think they ever will.

This is just so avoidable....

Dogs and children do not mix!

Especially as they were the grandmother's dogs, they were probably not used to being around a baby.

Just feel so sorry for all concerned, but it should never have been allowed to happen....(what was the baby doing in the living room at midnight anyway?)

What a waste....

insertwittynicknameHERE tbh to an extent I agree with your brother.

While I think that dogs and young children shouldn't be left alone together I don't think it's right to never allow them in the same room even if there is an adult present. How are the dogs going to learn to interact with your children and vice versa if they never come into contact with each other?

Being a dog owner doesn't mean that children and dogs should have no interaction - quite the opposite. Children need to learn how to interact with animals and the dogs need to learn how to interact with the children.

It is more likely a dog who is not used to children that is likely to bite one.

"Im sorry but anyone who has kids should not have a dog, really."

That does sound likle an exaggeration. As far as I'm aware more babies are killed by their dads than by the family dog, so should we say that noone who has kids should have a man about the house? Actaully, even more kids are killed in the family car- noone who has kids should drive.

I think it's supervision you need. I wouldn't leave a dog alone with a baby- but then I wouldn't leave my 3yo alone with the baby either.

In fact, I have good reason to believe that if I had left dd unsupervised with the baby, she would no longer have a little brother. But I wouldn't take this as a reason to state that noone should have more than one child. Just that you have to supervise.

From what I recall, the last few cases that have hit the news have been similar situations, where a child is being cared for by relatives and so the dogs aren't used to them.

Likewise, on the occasions that this happens outside the home, it's strangers who get attacked by dogs with idiot owners who cannot control them.

It really confirms what I feel that is you want to own dogs, you just have to be absolutely sure that you are prepared to always be in total control of them at any time they are outside your own house. And you should be prepared to say no if other relatives want you to care for their kids in your house.

agree violethill, but round here (even around the school) it seems even taking responsibility for their mess is too much for many dog owners.

I meant to say that the focus should of course be on the poor little boy. Another beautiful child, very difficult to look at his face on the news. Hope he didn't suffer for too long.

"what was the baby doing in the living room at midnight anyway?"

Maybe the grandmother had been in the living room herself, with the baby asleep in the basket, until she went to bed, & had just popped out of the room for 5 minutes? It sounds like a completely normal situation which just went horribly wrong - if she'd just shut them in the kitchen...she will be thinking that for the rest of her life, poor woman

In the Telegraph report the neighbours said the baby had stayed overnight at weekends several times already so he wasn't a total surprise to the dogs.

while it goes without saying that the death of a child is tragic beyond words, I do think that the reactions of some whenever these cases occur are completely out of all proportion.

Our children are far, far more likely to be killed crossing a road/driving in the family car than by a dog. And as a rule, family dogs do not just turn into child-killing monsters, when these cases are reported there is always an underlying circumstance, ie the dog was kept outside so unused to children/was known to be agressive and was being kept as a guard dog yet gained access to the children. This notion that any dog can turn at any time is simply not true.

while all dogs have the capasity to bite, on the whole most dogs will only bite if provoked, and in the instances where a family pet is agressive, the owners of the dog are at fault for allowing a knowingly agressive dog around children.

There are millions and millions of dogs in the UK (7 million in 2001 so almost certainly more than that) and in the past year there have been what, three? five deaths due to dog attacks? The numbers are so small as to be neglidgeable, and yet whenever such an attack is reported we hear calls for bans on dogs/people with children shouldn't have dogs/people with dogs not to look after other people's children (as posted above) etc. And yet something like 1200 children were killed by being hit by cars last year and yet there's no call for the banning of cars.

wannabe I see what you are saying, and I do agree, but I never said that DD and the dogs never have time together I only said that they are never left alone together.

Copy and pasted from my first post;
'I have 2 dogs and a 14.5mo DD and a LO on the way. My dogs and my DD are NEVER left alone. I do trust my dogs, but not to the extent of my DD's safety.'
DD and the dogs do spend time together, but only with mine or DH's supervision. But no the dogs do not come into the front room until DD is in bed.
DD (and DH and I) sit in the back room with her and the dogs occasionally throughout the day.

TBH it is very rare they come in the front room anyway as I like to keep it dog hair free (both of mine malt something awful).

I do agree that children and dogs need time together but in a supervised environment only.

I don't think it's true that all dogs will attack only if attacked - especially terriers.

We have a staffie cross. I've seen her go after and catch a rabbit when we've been out walking (we retrieved the rabbit and let it go).

It would be her instinct to treat any other small mammal - baby, toddler, in the same way as a rabbit.

However, she's a good family dog with our older children and has never been aggressive with any of us.

I would not trust her with small children or babies though.

My heart goes out to this family - it does sound like a really dreadful tragedy.

We have a rottie and have had her from a puppy. Took her to training classes and were given the 3rd degree by the breeder who wanted to come and see our house and explain to him why we thought we were suitable rottie owners. He was not going to give an potential puppies to ANYONE who had not been personally approved by him.

Our dog has her own crate and we have a large garden. She is used to children as we have two, however I dont personally like people who say 'you can pull my dogs tail, poke her and she wont do anything'. Our dog is easy and doesnt make a fuss over nothing but she would not like people she doesnt know poking her or using her to pull themselves up. Would we like this? What if the dog was feeling under the weather or had an injury that a child suddenly starting touching. If any of the kids friends come over we always make sure we are in the same room or we put her outside but I realise that rottie's arent everyone's choice. BTW, the training centre we took her to told us that the most common dog breed they saw with behaviour problems was a Golden Retriever!!! I was staggered.