Let's get this right: Israel, not Hamas, started the war in Gaza

[sherazade]

Israel broke the four month ceasefire in november 2008 after a raid into the territory which killed six member of hamas.

Hamas responded with the rockets.

Prior to this, Gaza's people has been subject to an almost 2 year long siege involving harsh sanctions against its people which has resulted in appalling life conditions. According to Ann short a ridiculously high percentagte of Gazan children are 'malnourished' because of the siege.

Hamas is asking for the siege to be lifted.
Hamas is not a terrorist organisaiton. It is a democratically (first fair elections in the middle east) elected polticial party made up of highly qualified and educated doctors, lawyers, and engineers and is amongst the most highly educated governing body in the world with over 500 phD's between its members. It is certainly not 'misogynistic', with many women amongst it upper ranks.

It was hamas' internal, not foreign, policy which got them elected.

Now with almost a thousand innocents dead, the lack of compassion on this forum has sickened me beyond belief.

This is a sad, sad, world we live in.

TBH we can endlessly debate the rights and wrongs of the creation of the state of Israel but although it helps to understand the complexities of the current situation, it isn't going to help resolve it. What frightens me is that it's causing a rise in anti-semitism / anti-jewish feeling (I know some of you object to the term 'anti-semitism') here in Europe. There have been petrol bomb attacks on synagogues in France and a rise in incidents here.

"bring back lisalisa"

blimey, has it gone that far?

I really hate this, and I think that actually, both sides started it - hamas fired the rockets and israel refused to lift the blockade. it's not really terribly helpful to apportion blame beyond that (although the "self defence" argument is really starting to piss me off).

I'm sorry, and quite surprised that anti-jewish attacjs in eurpoe have got worse though. lets hompe someone bangs their (leaders in israel and palestine) heads together soon. i suspect they'll just blame each other for the banging though.

Well, I think my comments have been balanced.

If you have a prejudice one way or the other, than my comments will, of course, strike a cord.

As I said earlier in the thread, I don't really give a shit. I am neither Jewish or Palestinian.

Unless you're one or the other, 'tis all pap, surely?

Ah! You think the US lends Israel money!

Believe me, it will be the other way around. What they put in the public domain is not the truth.

U.S. Financial Aid To IsraelYvonne Ridley, Former Taliban Captive, Convert to Islam - Wednesday, 14 January 2009© Yvonne Ridley, Former Taliban Captive, Convert to Islam

sorry don't know what happened there

US financial aid to israel

she does say that israel loans back some of its grants to usa, is this your point desi?

Some quite encouraging comments in the Times today from Hillary Clinton about her and Obama's views on the situation. Nothing about the wholescale removal of Israel or the Jews funnily enough.

no, but by refusing to talk to hamas, they are complicit in the genocide of a thousand palestinians.

I'm now finding this thread so depressing and pointless I've decided not to bother reading it any more. Interestingly, some of the views on here have actually increased my sympathy for the Israeli position. It's hardly suprising given how many people hold, and aren't afraid to publicly express, anti-semitic views based on tired stereotypes that Israel feels it has to respond with disproportionate force to threats to the ongoing existence of a Jewish state.

You know what? If I were israeli I don't think I would feel the benefit of talking to Hamas. They are terrorists. They have legalised crucifixtion in gaza. They have declared it their aim to wipe out israel and, more than that, to kill jews worldwide. They use suicide bombers and hide behind a human shield.

I can't quite see how the dialogue would flow.

Here's my simple, fairly ignorant view on things (and I sincerely apologise if my ignorance causes offence in such a hideous situation).

So the State of Israel was created by taking lands from Palestine. Well, the Jews suffered such gross persecution you wouldn't deny them this surely?

As the years go by, Israel grabs more land leaving the Palestineans with er, fuck all really. So a persecuted peoples persecutes other peoples to take over more land (Cheers Hitler, us Jews did learn something from you then!)

Hmm, Palestine gets a bit pissed, wants some of the land back. Israel tells them to piss off.

In true tradition, PLO, Hamas use a bit of, ahem, 'persuasion' to get what they want.

ANC, IRA - they've all used terrorism to achieve their aims. Innocent people murdered, yet all this seems to be quietly forgotten once diplomacy and compromise raise their heads above the bloodshed.

In my extremely naive view, both sides are going to have to compromise a lot. No-one is oging to win here.

YYY, and I also feel depressed and hopeless that the blood of palestinians is so dirt cheap, that Israel's 'disproportionate' use of force is 'hardly suprising' (as far as I am concerned, 4.5 thousand injured and a thousand killed in 2.5 weeks beggars belief), because people are 'anti semitic'.

The IRA didn't achieve their aims through terrorism, though. Sinn Fein means "ourselves alone" and Northern Ireland is still part of the UK.

stewie - good post. It is encouraging to know that there are Israelis who are opposed to the construction of illegal settlements ( or colonisation as I believe it should be called - actually, how about just plain 'theft of land'). For me this is one of the real sticking points which proves that Israel is not interested in a two state solution; they say 'we want you to have your own land' yet they build on that land and steal Palestinian farms every day- WTF? even as Ariel Sharon withdrew from Gaza in 2005 he issued instructions for the resettlement of several thousand Israelis on Palestinian West Bank territory.

BTW sherezade - agree entirely with your OP.