Let's get this right: Israel, not Hamas, started the war in Gaza

[sherazade]

Israel broke the four month ceasefire in november 2008 after a raid into the territory which killed six member of hamas.

Hamas responded with the rockets.

Prior to this, Gaza's people has been subject to an almost 2 year long siege involving harsh sanctions against its people which has resulted in appalling life conditions. According to Ann short a ridiculously high percentagte of Gazan children are 'malnourished' because of the siege.

Hamas is asking for the siege to be lifted.
Hamas is not a terrorist organisaiton. It is a democratically (first fair elections in the middle east) elected polticial party made up of highly qualified and educated doctors, lawyers, and engineers and is amongst the most highly educated governing body in the world with over 500 phD's between its members. It is certainly not 'misogynistic', with many women amongst it upper ranks.

It was hamas' internal, not foreign, policy which got them elected.

Now with almost a thousand innocents dead, the lack of compassion on this forum has sickened me beyond belief.

This is a sad, sad, world we live in.

FGS can't you post your opinion on one of the several hundred posts there already are on this topic? Why start yet another bone rehashing the same things over and over again.

meant thread not bone (i know the two words are not even similar, I am v tired).

Worth starting a thread imo just so more people see the title and realise that this 'hamas started it line so we can massacre as many as we like' position is not entirely accurate.

It's important.
People are dying.
And Starving.
The consequences will proabaly effect middle east stability, and therefore world stability, for a very long time to come.

Sorry if that bores you.

no, TheBB, I can't and I won't, knowing that MY OWN people are dying and people are blaming hamas. end the siege, stop the violence on palestinians (whose land was stolen in the first place) and Hamas will not fire a rocket again.

oh and all this about hamas using innocents as shields is complete and utter nonsense. In such a tiny place with such a massive population- one of the most crowded places on the planet- it is virtually impossible to set up 'terrorist' bases in isolation. Not The UN school disaster that killed 40 innocents- were there terrorists hiding there? no. were there terrorists hiding in the UN truck that was supposed to deliver aid? no. was the small baby that was run over by an israel tank a terrorist? no. was the little boy waving a hamas flag off a rooftop before they gunned him down a terrorist? no. i could go on forever.

Agree with you Sherazade - is amazing the war crimes you can get away with when backed by the great US of Arse isn't it!

Sherazade is right. It is reported by the BBC, but generally overlooked.

Israel made incursions into Gaza before Christmas (2 I think, about 20 Palestinians killed, I can check if anyone wants) and maintained the blockade which was also against the ceasefire, so actually doubly broke the ceasefire.

and how many Israelis had hamas killed with thier rockets before Israel started bombing?? Oh yes that's right 0 !

How many Palestininas have Israel killed in the past 2 weeks? 800+.

How many Israelis killed? 13. 3 by thier own fire.

Unjustifiable massacre.

But how tedious for you TBB, if you've even bothered reading it.

You have every right to post Sherazade. I think even CNN reported that ceasefire was broken by Isaelis.

it is of great comfort to me, that there are still people in the world today who are capable of demonstrating true compassion, and true logic. I was starting to feel hopeless in the human race. I am so sad. My life is changed forever after the events in gaza.
I think a part of me has died with gaza 's 800.

For me, going on the march was important. I just want the Gazan's to know we do care, and are so upset and disgusted with the hell they've have been put through.

I for one, was glad to hear that Belgium is going in to evacuate the injured children in Gaza as they were fed up waiting for someone to do something.

Tbh, I don't think I've seen any pro-israeli reporting. The UK media seem much less pro-israeli than some of what I read from America.

I've just come back from th demo in london. took us hours to get to the end. 1000's of concenred angry people - much much more than the 12,000 quoted by the police and bbc. I recknon 80 -100000 on a bitterly cold day.

Watching children die in Palestine is just so devastating. I know there are casulties in Isreal but they are so armed (incl n. weapons) but the one sided nature of it is so apparanet.

Well, I've had enough of Israel. It's hardly worth the trouble, is it? Let them all go to America where they have a huge fan base. It would save a lot of strife and bloodshed.

Prudence, Can we tippex over the bit in the bible that says that God gave them that land!!

If they were offered a generous enough package to relocate, do you think they'd leave!! En masse, with their friends, family, similar jobs required..

I'm a quarter Jewish btw, well, had a Jewish gp, so I feel very guilty even typing that. But what IS the answer????

Merecedes the BBC are estimating 50,000.

Thank God poeple are at least taking to the streets for the poeple of Gaza.

I went last week but couldn't go today.

Last week we were chanting 'people of Gaza we are with you' which may seem trite when we are obviously not there, but I just hoped they would see or hear that we were out on the streets and they they are at least not forgotten.

(I am middle class white woman btw average in every way and pretty obviously not from gaza).

Sherazade there is support out there for you and your people, poele know what is happening is inhuman and criminal.

How is it being allowed to happen? Why is it not being stopped? We thought the west would not stand by and allow such atrocities to happen again. We were wrong.

Me, my family and friends joined the march today in London because it is an international disgrace that the Israeli goverment has been allowed to freely exert their violence towards the palestine nation for so long and which such intensity.

More than anything it breaks my heart the amount of children, women being punished having done nothing and live in constant fear of dying.

Excellent article by Naomi Klein

I dare put a link from the daily mail as although I've just read an article which I am sure it is accurate but too one sided and upsetting.

Peace!

it's awful, news last night is very depresssing. from bbc:

Palestinian medical sources say 910 people have been killed in Gaza so far, of whom 292 were children and 75 were women. Israeli officials say 13 Israelis, including three civilians, have been killed

this needs to stop. does israel want to start ww3?

It's the saddest thing in the world that one of the most abused races can become one of the most abusive. I watched the Anne Frank programme last week and thought how did the Israelis forget so quickly what it's like to be persecuted. I'm praying every night that they might discover their humanity again.

I meant rediscover their humanity (I think!)

I don't really want to feed a thread like this, but I'm amazed that people can come onto a forum like MN and openly call for the end of another nation state. Can you imagine the outcry if anyone posted such thoughts about a Muslim country? Fortunately, moderate, intelligent people with influence such as Barack Obama who have actually been out there and are aware of the true facts will not be supporting your calls for a mass shipment of Jews overseas.

I cannot for a moment think what israel should do/could do. Sherezade has said on another thread that she wants israelis to pack their bags and leave, and basically that she believes the setting up of an israeli state was wrong.

I cannot agree with this.

I also think they are in a terrible position surrounded by hostile nations (including iran who is supplying hamas with weaponry) with suicide bombers targeting its people and hamas rocket attacks being directed at its people. People seem to be almost suggesting that they should turn the other cheek, because they know what it is like to be targeted (ie.e by the nazis and centuries of persecution). But actually is that not just setting israel up for yet another hammering - for israel to not exist any more, when for most jews possibly the creation of a nation state was a solitary positive thing to come out of the horrors of the second world war.

Hamas are fundamentalist terrorists who have the aim of wiping out israel. They have legalised crucifixion for the people of gaza if they are deemed to be sympathetic to israel. They use the common people as human shields. They use women and children as suicide bombers. What should israel do when faced with them? And in terms of the OP, my understanding was that the incursion that led to the 6 deaths was directed solely at the people who were currently tunneling under an israeli army camp with a view to kidnapping soldiers. Hamas then responded by firing rockets again.

I think it is a desperately sad situation because I can see no resolution. Particularly when one "side" are fundamentalist terrorists and the other "side" have common history of terrible persecution and are threatened on all sides.

I'm just putting my faith in Obama, Pooka, and hoping that he can create two peaceful, viable states out of this mess. Someone needs to protect Israel from its surrounding enemies and rescue the Palestinian people from exploiting extremists (btw, why is it always men weeping and wailing on the news- where are the poor women in all this- silent and overlooked as ever).

Agree with you sherazade.Just wondering what the heck Israel thinks it's doing.
Tony Blair[still can't get over the fact he is peace envoy!].