In the night garden light skinned doll

[spokette]

So according to the makers of In the night garden, the characters are toys, not representative of real people here?. I guess that is why most of the characters have light skin then.

One of the reasons I actually liked "In the night garden" is that there is a character who has dark skin and is therefore a positive reinforcement to my mixed race 4yo DTS because, there are very few dark skinned characters on TV and hence why their TV viewing is strictly rationed. Non-blacks will probably not understand why this is important but for those interested, I grew up in 70s Britain and the constant, relentless barrage by the media that black people were either criminals or only good at sports was not only dispiriting and erroneous but also insulting and designed to remind us of our place in society.

This cynical and deliberate ploy to market a lighter skin doll as oppose to the darker skin one was done to appeal to the non-black buying public as usual and demonstrates that the BBC, like many of these institutions are still paying mainly lip service to providing inclusive TV viewing.

Guess who will not be tuning in to this programme again?

faq, that's a cheap shot. When was the last time you went abroad?

rinder

2yrs ago - and to a country that has a hell of a lot fewer racist attacks/incidents that we do here.

If you think that racism doesn't exist in this country then obviously you spend too much time abroad and not enough time in this country seeing what's happening around you.

So, what country was that, FAQ?

its a lovely view you have there desderata
a bit like the American Dream
it is a dream though, sadly
nice thought though
glad you mate did well in massive attack. seems he was lucky to survive life unscathed from racism
i think the op is a little ott but she has a point in some respects. im not sure what yours is. i think you might be a bit confused about what constitutes racism though. its certainly not in the league of being ginger. i am very sorry about that for you though

Since most toy manufacturers market directly to children (relying on pester power), and since parental motivation for buying the upsy daisy doll is almost certainly likely to be that their child already has an affinity to the character, I am struggling to see why a marketer would conclude that deliberately lightening the 'skin' of the doll would increase sales. In all likelihood, producing a doll which differs significantly from the TV character is likely to result in it being rejected as unsuitable.

It would be counterproductive. IMO this is probably a cockup.

Racism surely exists, but I don't see it at work here.

Really, Troy?

Has it escaped your notice that to be black is to be cool?

Indeed, for those with balls, wasn't it ever thus?

Do you know who gets bullied the most in school play grounds?

Kids with ginger hair. Have a thought about their mothers, before you spout shite about racism.

And that goes back to the 70's, too.

you speak as though you are the only one that knows about these things
anyhoo
fascinating as this all is i must away to my bed shortly
nighty night

Desi - my beautiful mixed race toddler was stopped in the street in the street in Brighton and called a "chinkie" for no obvious reason a few months ago.

Are you really saying that this kind of thing doesn.t happen. My mother, sister, sister in law and two neices are red heads - can;t say there;s been much in the way of name calling for any of them and what little there has been hasn't involved dificulty in getting work because of their hair colour. Or being beaten up by gingerist thugs .

On the upsy Daisy colour issue - I had assumed the borwn Upsy Daisy morphing into a pink upsy daisy was incompetant quality control rather than racism.

which makes my sample of redheads 5 and your sample of black people two so I win

Kewcumber! How outrageous - what did you do?

Hey! If you want to sit on this thread and play the race card, then do so.

I would just like to remind you all that bullying is a childhood condition. Don't put your shit on your kids.

Because when you do that, you have a middle-east-situation.

just walked away - actually he was with some friends and I could hear one one of them say in a slightly shocked voice - "why did you say that?" which did make me feel a bit better.

Need to practice what I'm going to say becuase I'm sure it won't be the last time. Sadly DS was doing his happy smiley face at all the nice people walking past him when it happened, luckily too young then to understand what the man had said (though not said in a pleasant way which he did pick up on).

Good night, women

"If you want to sit on this thread and play the race card, then do so" pmsl - its a thread on racism Desi - don;t you think the race card is relevant in this situation.

Do you think then that it a natural thing for a two year old to be called names by a stranger in the street and that he should just learn to dela with it?

Of course he will have to learn to deal with it as it will continue to happen to him , thebest I can do is equip him as best as I can to rise above it. My DS learning to deal with it may be the most pratcical solution but doesn't mean it isn't racism.

Being white, I don't feel I have a chip on my shoulder or have any particular agenda to foist onto DS.

Kew, that big pic of Ds on your profile is fab!

I hadn't noticed the pink 'skinned' Upsy Daisy in the shops! I'm sure I've never seen one that light before...
I always assumed it was supposed to be a black/mixed race 'girl' too. We don't have the soft dolls here at home.
Dd's dad is mixed race black and calls her Upsy Daisy the Ginger Bread Floozy...I think that's funny.

I read this thread last night and went to bed abit flabagasted (a word i thought i would never use.) I can't say i ever thought of the night garden charactors as being representive of real people, or even if i did, my 2 year old would certainly never pick out charactors as human or notice things such as race.

I thought about and i have come to the conclusion that this isn't just a race issue regarding black people, it's also an issue about white people.

I thought about what would be said if this issue were the other way around. Suppose Upsy Daisy was a white charactor on tv and they marketed the doll "too black?" Would you get a flock of people complaining to the BBC about the doll being too black? Or would you get a flock of people being flamed for being racist towards black people for complaining the doll is too black? I can't even imagine to begin what the uproar would be like if the BBC then agreed to make the doll "more white" to match the tv charactor.

So my conclusion is, why does it matter so much that the doll is more white than the tv charactor? What's wrong with being white?

I can't help but think spokette that because of the bullying you suffered during the 70s (which i am sorry you suffered,) i can't help but conclude that as a result you have developed some racism yourself towards white people?

If they had made the doll black but the charactor was supposed to white, i can't see myself stopping my child from watching the show. But you have stopped your dc watching the show because they have made the doll too white. That to me is sending out a message to your children that somehow being white is wrong? Children don't notice differences in colour of skin/race until adults point out and make an issue of it.

Desi

For your information, I do not have a chip on my shoulder. You are obviously one of these people who lives in La-la land and thinks that people like me spend our lives parading as victims. That argument, imo, is usually used by lazy ignoramuses who are bereft of knowledge, intelligence as well as insightful opinions.

Ford did this kind of thing a few years ago when it whitened its black employees for a publicity campaign, here. I suppose the black workers who protested had a chip on their shoulder too?

My ire at the BBC is the fact that they are incompetent and insensitive enough to do this kind of thing too. The unconscience message it sends is that light is desireable and dark is not. In the 1950s, when Nat King Cole and the other black artist where allowed to appear on TV they were whitened up so as not to offend the white viewing public. This is 2009 and this kind of thing should not be happening now and why Ford were rightly damned for what they had done.

Zora Neale Thurston's book "The Eyes were Watching God" was one of the first novels to powerfully and lyrically address the light/dark skin issue that plagues the black community and has its roots in slavery - dark skin slaves worked in the field, light skinned ones (the products of the rape of black female slaves by white masters)in the house.

I just find it depressing that even with something as benign as a doll from a children's TV programme, that this has to happen. If the skin colour was unimportant, why didn't they darken it as oppose to lighten it?

Children don't notice differences in colour of skin/race until adults point out and make an issue of it.

Best point on here. Does it really matter. I think its fantastic that characters on children tv can be any colour under the sun and children just accept it as is.
If we then start pointing out there are differences surely this doesn't help but hinder.

My dd has a couple of the character toys and I have to admit I've never noticed if upsy daisy is lighter but if my dd isnt going around saying thats not right and just accepting that upsy daisy is her daisy that she has to have in bed, she is a character, a personality in her own right isnt that better than saying upsy dasiy is the black doll. Maybe our children could teach us a thing or two.

MrsSparkle - I am married to a white man, many of my friends and colleagues are white so your conclusions about me being racist towards white people are garbage.

FYI, I have not even pointed out the differences in skin colour to my DTS but I know it will come up soon and I want them to be strong in their identity and not have it invidiously undermined.

I don't expect you to understand but my DH does and so does his family and that is good enough for me.

it's not just this country that has an interest in fair skin here

I look at it this way, if it were the other way around and i had started a thread complaining that the BBC had made a white based charactor on tv too black and said i was stopping my dc from watching the show because of this, i would be flamed to death and branded a racist. I don't see why it should be any different it being the other way around like it is in this case.

Your argument is without merit MrsSparkle and the fact that you cannot see that means that I won't waste my time explaining it to you.

Well to me that's a typical response when a white person speaks out about blatant racism towards other white people. Probably because most black people deny it exists.