In the night garden light skinned doll

[spokette]

So according to the makers of In the night garden, the characters are toys, not representative of real people here?. I guess that is why most of the characters have light skin then.

One of the reasons I actually liked "In the night garden" is that there is a character who has dark skin and is therefore a positive reinforcement to my mixed race 4yo DTS because, there are very few dark skinned characters on TV and hence why their TV viewing is strictly rationed. Non-blacks will probably not understand why this is important but for those interested, I grew up in 70s Britain and the constant, relentless barrage by the media that black people were either criminals or only good at sports was not only dispiriting and erroneous but also insulting and designed to remind us of our place in society.

This cynical and deliberate ploy to market a lighter skin doll as oppose to the darker skin one was done to appeal to the non-black buying public as usual and demonstrates that the BBC, like many of these institutions are still paying mainly lip service to providing inclusive TV viewing.

Guess who will not be tuning in to this programme again?

Is being good at sports a bad thing then?

It's alright for those of us who are short of stature, if that's what they are aiming for. I'm not sure they are appealing to any demographic except toddlers and pre-toddlers. They are short of stature.

Do you think that "Ninky-Nonk" has 'connotations' too?

Why does this mean you (presumably you mean your dcs) won't watch the programme again? If you liked and approved of it beforehand, for the reasons you gave, what has changed?

Troy, do you know what is was like to be a black and at school in the 1970s? You were either considered good at sport or nothing!

Nothing wrong with being good at sport but black people are not an homogenous mass, we are individuals but the media often has problems grasping this simple concept.

if it makes any difference, that really annoys me too and I am white, as are my kids. I did assume that Upsy Daisy was meant to be mixed race.

(don't get me started on Dipsy, btw, the amorphous teletubby who is bascially crap at most things, or Milo the naughty boy)

Fatti, I don't like being used or exploited or treated like an idiot. That is how I view the marketing of this doll and that is how I now view the programme.

but this isn't the 1970's anymore (well wasn't last time I checked - otherwise I would hardly have been born).......

I never thought of them as being 'human' characters anyway. Or is igglepiggle a scot

(joke of course- apologies to all scots)

I do think that the night garden is a marketing ploy though, far more than most kids bbc programs. Am deeply as to whether it is anything more than a huge advert for merchandise.

Troy, I think you need to include the "only" in Spokette's comment about black people being only good at sports to fully understand the context here. Of course being good at sports is a good thing, however to infer that a whole race of people is either criminal or just good at one thing is pretty demeaning, and it did indeed happen in 70s Britain.

Wrt the Upsy Daisy doll, I personnally view the characters as people, not toys. Upsy Daisy is indeed a positive figure for my (mixed-race) DD to see. However, she would never forgive me if I stopped her from watching the programme based on this (or anything else for that matter!). The Upsy Daisy doll is far too light skinned though and so does not look very much like her TV personae

I've never thought of them as humans either, Upsy Daisy a doll, the well ermm, whatever they are (certainly not human though!)

Ooh FAQ I like your new name

"I never thought of them as being 'human' characters anyway."

The day when most of the characters have non-white skin and still appeal to the majority white audience, then progress will have been made.

The Upsy Daisy doll is far too light skinned though and so does not look very much like her TV personae

thats the only bit that would annoy me. that they couldn't even get their own character toy right.

I've always thought that the "night garden" was where all the toys woke up and played in the night in their dreams - like that story I used to read when I was little

agree the Upsy Daisy doll was inaccurate. I suppose I'm inclined to think it was incompetence rather than racism. But would be very interested to hear if there is evidence to the contrary.

The day when most of the characters have non-white skin and still appeal to the majority white audience, then progress will have been made>>

Why more? why not a ratio representive of the population? or better still why not random numbers with no one at all thinking to count. That would be real progress.

"or better still why not random numbers with no one at all thinking to count. "

definitely - as even proportionate representation opens a minefield of problems, what about areas which are mainly white, or asian, or black, mainly immigrants.

TBH I never notice which characters/people are what race in kids programmes - either my kids love them - so the TV is on, or they hate them, so are switched off.

Oh i see. I wasnt around in the seventies. I have only been around a relatively short time, in comparison to the history between black people coming/being brought to the UK and where we are today.

I see what you mean, but what I was getting at is that if you viewed the programme as a good thing before, you should carry on doing so for the reasons you said. I think Upsy Daisy is more of a 'person' than any of the other characters and I'd always seen her as mixed-race iyswim, regardless of what the BBC marketing dept say. IMO they're just covering their backs not wanting to commit themselves either way.

Btw I can't see why they'd market a light-skinned doll when the programme's version is darker - obviously the character is massively popular as she is, why would they change it? People would complain if they marketed a red iggle-piggle wouldn't they.

well I nearly bought DS3 an Upsy Daisy (to go with his Iggle PIggle) for Christmas and honest to god wouldn't even have thought about Upsy Daisy being shown as mixed race - she looked the same to me in the shop as she does on TV

loads of children adore the TV show. loads of children want the doll. I seriously doubt any of the kids watching the show and/or wanting the doll devote a single thought to the skin colour in either case.

isn't that progress then? at least on the part of our children?

perhaps we could learn from them, and ignore it as well, and enjoy the part of the same things about the show which they do. the silly music, the dancing, the weirdly hypnotising birds...

Don't know whether its good or bad that the skin colour never occurred to me. Mind, we're iggle based here, Upsey is a bit girly for our family (4 boys)

If they've deliberately lightened the skin that's pretty appalling.

Sorry you have such a bad memory of growing up in the seventies- the only black kid in our school (but we were in Somerset so quite backwards there) was moved to London by her family as they felt out of place . I still remember her coming crying to say goodbye- I think we were still too young to feel she was in any way different.

Luckily we've moved to an area with a great multicultural mix: one of the reasons on out t stay here, although I bet Somerset has improved too.

Spokette - would it reassure you to know that dd3 has 2 Upsy Daisy dolls and I've been and checked and both of them have significantly darker skin than the one in the news. I think this is a cockup by the manufacturer pure and simple.

what weird world do you live in where the characters from in the night garden are representative?