In the night garden light skinned doll

[spokette]

So according to the makers of In the night garden, the characters are toys, not representative of real people here?. I guess that is why most of the characters have light skin then.

One of the reasons I actually liked "In the night garden" is that there is a character who has dark skin and is therefore a positive reinforcement to my mixed race 4yo DTS because, there are very few dark skinned characters on TV and hence why their TV viewing is strictly rationed. Non-blacks will probably not understand why this is important but for those interested, I grew up in 70s Britain and the constant, relentless barrage by the media that black people were either criminals or only good at sports was not only dispiriting and erroneous but also insulting and designed to remind us of our place in society.

This cynical and deliberate ploy to market a lighter skin doll as oppose to the darker skin one was done to appeal to the non-black buying public as usual and demonstrates that the BBC, like many of these institutions are still paying mainly lip service to providing inclusive TV viewing.

Guess who will not be tuning in to this programme again?

Upsy Daisy is obviously black and what is annoying is the fact that the programme makers are denying this. I think that's a bit stupid of them and they should just have said the light skinned doll was a mistake.

Just thinking of the 70's though Spokette, the bbc had Floella Benjamin and Derek Griffiths on children's tv so probably had more black/mixed race people than grown up tv at the time.

Hmm. I live in an area where black + asian ethnic minorities amount to nearly 15% of the population (quite high in comparison to the rest of the country), thus not so much of a small minority. In my childrens' schools at least 40% of each class has English as a second language. Having looked - the upsy daisy on the news is lighter than the ones i've seen.

But

Does anyone think that makkapakka, when said by a toddler sounds much too much like "mother fucker"?

lol Troy - no worse than my friends DS many years ago who loved Trucks, but couldn't say "tr" so used to walk down the road pointing at trucks shouting

Fck Fck F*ck

or my own DS1 who use to talk about daddy's "Shits" or "Shit" if just one (Shirt/Shirts )

Agree with Spokette.

I was furious to find that the ITNG characters my DH bought DS had a lighter skinned Upsy Daisy. Although I can't stand the sexism of her characterisation either, I was appalled at the casual racism that allowed her blackness to be made 'whiter'.

not sure hwat to make of this. My dd loves ITNG and I have never noticed that upsy daisy was dark skinned or thought she was supposed to be mixed race. My dd also got that doll in the picture and hadn't noticed the skin was a different colour either.

perhpas too much is being read into things????

and a lighter skin doll matters to a 2/3 yo child because......???? Children enjoy ITNG, they don't have the comprehension of racism or commercialism, why would you stop your child watching the program because someone made the shop bought toy lighter than the actual character on the show. How will you explain to them that they can't watch it anymore?

I'm not sure where I stand on this, Initally I agreed but then realised that the igglepiggle doll we have is also much lighter than the programme and the tomliboos definately dont match colour or even proportion size to the tv ones.

I agree with wah wah at getting annoyed about her stereotypical 'girliness' and that fact that apart from the harranged mother of the pontinines and whatingers is the only female character.

why does all this envoke fury in you all - its a kids program that your children will eventually tire of - my DT's would sit glued for entire half hour about a year ago, if not more, the most peaceful the house would be all day, I loved it for that very reason - now they hate it and they are 4. They have developed no issues about skin colour or the fact only 3 women are featured in the show - in fact I think they have come through their obsession with it pretty unscathed.....lighten up people!

I'm struggling to see the perceived racism here. Iggle Piggle is blue. How many blue people do you know? I really don't think they are supposed to be representative.

Also I don't think the IgglePiggle doll does look exactly like the IgglePiggle on TV, he has darker and lighter blue patches, and the one on TV doesn't.

"The day when most of the characters have non-white skin and still appeal to the majority white audience, then progress will have been made."

There have been loads of TV programmes where that is the case, since the early 1980s - do you remember the Cosby Show? Everyone watched the Cosby Show.

Chofleur has made by far the best comment on this thread, and with fewer words.

Really! Get some perspective, spokette. If you honestly think that inane stuffed dolls are capable of providing a role model to your mixed race kids, then I suggest you raise your game.

I grew up in the 70s, too. I didn't notice a barrage.

Remove chip from shoulder.

Uncalled for imo Desiderata. If you cannot remember racism in the 70s it is apparent that you were either too young at the time or the issues had no impact on your life whatsoever. "Chips on shoulders" (loathe this term) are hardly surprising if you were black growing up in 70s Britain.

As far as I can see not one person on this thread has actually said that Upsy Daisy is a role model ffs! There is a huge difference between a figure on TV having a positive message to being a role model.

But why is she a postive message? I don't see her as a black person. She's just a doll.

You'll be saying the Pontipines are Hassidic Jews next.

I always thought Upsy was a multi-ethnic rastafarian. Boy, what a let-down.

Don't you think the characters are child-like? They behave more like humans than any other being, right? If they've kept Iggle the same shade as his screen original, why not Upsy?

He isn't though. My DS's IP doll has lighter patches on his arms, the screen one doesn't.

Not uncalled for at all, Rinder.

The OP is controversial, and deserves a similar response.

I left school in 1981, so I'd say I was there. What happened in the 70s has no bearing at all on what happens today. Incidentally, when I was at secondary school, there were only two black kids, brother and sister. The brother is the lead singer of Massive Attack, and I don't think his sister's done too badly either. I never once saw her subjected to racist abuse.

The OP is reflecting her angst onto her children, what is never a good thing to do.

The fact is that less than 10% of the population is black. I would say that more than 10% of childrens' characters on TV are black.

What do you want? Blood?

But that's not the point desiderata.

The point is that it looks as if they have deliberatly lightened the doll for marketing purposes, and if so that is wrong.

Also I don't really think you are able to say you were 'there' as it sounds from your post that you are white, and are judgin gyour take on the 70's from 2 kids in your school. Which is hardly a representive spread of experience.

Wow Desiderata, your experience of black people at school was obviously very extensive You didn't see any racism, therefore it did not happen?? Fuck me, the arrogance!

And history absolutely does have a bearing on what happens now imo.

Message withdrawn

Well, that I didn't know, GM. I might just stop commenting on the dolls question seeing as we have neither doll in our household! I was rather impressed by the Beeb for adopting a multi-ethnic rasta (with electric hair!) as a children's prog character though - now I don't know what to think!

As for Desi's absolutely bizarre post about racism - no the world doesn't revolve around you and your experience! Just a couple of months ago a 'yoof' shouted 'monkey' at me and another black guy on the street. Yes, there is still racism in Britain in this day and age. Perhaps you should go back and ask your black friends about their experience rather than being so presumptuous.

It may not be representive, but the two black kids that went to my school met with no racism, and went on to big, big things.

And that was Somerset, the deep, dark, racist depths of Britain.

Sorry, but you have a chip on your shoulder. The colour of your skin, in 21st century Britain, has no bearing at all.

Get over it, because your anger is such that you're beginning to sound racist yourselves.

And Rinder, ever tried being Ginger?

I see, Desi. So the 'Monkey' comment has nothing to do with my being black, and is just about me apparently having a chip on my shoulder? Are you sure about that?

Am I imagining this, or have you not actually asked those two black children about their experience?

. and MrsMerry ... has no black kid ever bullied a white kid?