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James Bulger Case, on TV now

112 replies

Lizzylou · 11/12/2008 21:42

I remember this from when I was a student, but it didn't connect with me (although I was horrified) as much as now, as a Mom of 2 boys (one of whom is a toddler). James Bulger's mother seems so dignified, I'm not sure I could be in that situation.

OP posts:
AussieLou · 11/12/2008 22:23

I remember hearing a while ago that one of the boys has been moved to Australia and that one was getting married. Now whether or not that is true given the fact they have new identities but nevertheless, what would you do if you found out you were married to one of them???

JacksFirstChristmasMama · 11/12/2008 22:25

Stab him to death with scissors.
Can you believe they were granted anonymity because they were juveniles?? 10 is old enough to know what you're doing!!

Ponders · 11/12/2008 22:28

10 is still a child, JFCM

They both had pretty unimaginably horrible family backgrounds. What they did to James was terrible but at 10, do they have to suffer for it for the rest of their lives?

No19 · 11/12/2008 22:34

Yes, a ten-year-old is a child but in legal terms, ten is the age of criminal responsibility. A ten-year-old is surely a perfect candidate for rehabilitation and it is to be hoped that those two children have learned how to be responsible adults and are now capable not just of understanding the difference between right and wrong, but of living happy and useful lives.

Of course James Bulger's death was dreadful, absolutely appalling, but they were children.

There seems something inappropriate about using a Santa Claus hat on that angry emoticon, JFCM.

beingpositive · 11/12/2008 22:35

Ponders. I wonder if you would have the same view were it your child that lost his precious life!!!!

No19 · 11/12/2008 22:37

Of course they were granted anonymity because they were juveniles. The whole point of it is that children are not subjected to witch hunts and have the opportunity of being rehabilitate. God knows what sort of adults they would have grown into if they had spent from the age of ten up being exposed to public hatred and condemnation.

merrykittymas · 11/12/2008 22:38

Lizzylou I was thinking the exact same thing tonight I was 18 when it happened, thought it was awful etc but didn't really think about it, all changes when you become a parent.

Thought Denise was so dignified, how she manages to get out of bed every morning is beyond me, poor poor woman

Ponders · 11/12/2008 22:40

Funnily enough I was just wondering that myself, bp.

I have a child of 15, gently raised, intelligent, & not at all vicious, who still is capable of extraordinarily stupid acts. Nobody has been physically hurt by any of them, but when I extrapolate I can imagine the possibilities.

If we haven't been there, we don't know how we'd react, do we.

beingpositive · 11/12/2008 22:49

I know what you mean Ponders.

I also think that the poor women who are to enter relationships with the two, now grown men will never know their history.Is that right though.

Ponders · 11/12/2008 22:57

No, for them never to know would not be right, that's true, bp.

I've no idea how the 2 boys are living now, or what sort of support is available to them, but I would hope that if they came to the point of entering into a serious long-term relationship there would be guidance about how to proceed, & what & how much to tell.

Most of us must have things in our past we'd rather not admit to if we didn't have to. Theirs is worse than most.

edam · 11/12/2008 22:58

God knows what sort of adults they have grown into. I wouldn't put any money on them being upright citizens who never harm a fly.

I know they were ten, and agree it was very wrong to try them in an adult court, but they didn't just kill a toddler by mistake. They tortured him. That level of, I dunno, psychopathy, evil, call it what you will - I am just NOT convinced that it could ever be safe to let them out.

UnfortunatelyMe · 11/12/2008 23:06

what channel is this/was this on please?

ElectraInExcelsis · 11/12/2008 23:19

This is something that crops up every now and then. It's impossible for anyone to make sense of it - how could we? Who knows what has happened to them in the time between when they were 10 and now. I guess there is a lot we will never know.

JacksFirstChristmasMama · 12/12/2008 03:22

Sorry about the Christmas hat on the "angry" emoticon. You're right, that wasn't appropriate.

No19 · 12/12/2008 10:48

type of thing I do without thinking myself.

Blake Morrison wrote a very sensitive book on this case. I think it was called What If or If Only or something - on phone so too cumbersome to google at moment.

cory · 12/12/2008 11:08

It is clear that at least one of the boys had been subjected to the same type of torture in his own home over a long period of time. 3 of his siblings tried to commit suicide because they couldn't cope. Which makes you wonder- if James Bulger had survived and then, when he got to that age, ended up hurting another child- how would we have judged him?

cory · 12/12/2008 11:10

It does seem from what I've read that Thompson thought it was normal for older children to torture younger children, because that's all the life experience he'd had- except that he'd always been at the receiving end.

PeachyBidsYouNadoligLlawen · 12/12/2008 11:11

Am I right in remembering the age of responsibilty was higher an brought down for this case?

if they'd not served time i'd be but they didand pnishing in the same way as an adult would be ott

cory · 12/12/2008 11:14

I have recently had occasion to admire my own children's integrity and caring attitude. But do I really know, if they had been taken away from me at birth and brought up by an alcoholic carer, completely at the mercy of older siblings who spent their lives torturing them, if they'd never seen anything else of the world but the strong deliberately hurting the weak, do I know that they would have been able to work out for themselves that there was a different way of doing things? And have the strength to carry it out?

I believe a lot of my children- but even I am not sure. Nurture must count for something.

NomDePlume · 12/12/2008 11:18

Ok, what about the case of Mary Bell in the sixties ? She was also a 10 year old 'child murderer'. She went through the prison system and came out, was given a new identity and whatnot and went on to live a 'normal' and settled life, she had a child and lived with her partner, as far as I am aware was never convicted of any further criminal offences. Well, she was living a normal settled life until the press 'found' her in the late 90's.

It appears that she was rehabilitated sucessfully, perhaps the boys who were convicted of James Bulger's murder could also be rehabilitated and useful members of society ?

2AdventSevenfoldShoes · 12/12/2008 11:18

didn't see the programme.
I always thought JB was the victim

tiredemma · 12/12/2008 11:22

I recently worked with a nurse who worked at the forensic unit where both boys were sent. She said that one of them was particulary 'evil' (her words, not mine) and showed no remorse at all during the time that she worked there. ( I was a bit at her comments however, think that she was trying to 'sensationalise' her contact with them)

NomDePlume · 12/12/2008 11:23

The case was so desperately sad on every possible level, I think. Terrible that a little boy went through such an ordeal, unimaginable grief on the part of James Bulger's parents, horrific that 2 children could commit such acts, tragic that it was a cycle of abuse being continued. It is too black and white to label the perpetrators as 'monsters' who should be locked away for ever. They were victims too, a little compassion is required when judging them, I think.

NomDePlume · 12/12/2008 11:27

I don't know what the answer is, whether they should have been released or not, because all I have to go on is media reporting. None of us have any evidence of their psychological state at the time of imprisonment, during their sentence or release, their rehabilitation programmes or indeed anything of that nature. No one can say for sure that they will not reoffend, but we must trust that those who made te decision to release the boys made it responsibly and with the most accurate information possible.

CrushWithEyeliner · 12/12/2008 11:30

Last night the DI in the docu stated that they were actively looking for a child to hurt or kill that day. I feel that it is a horrific case all around, but these boys did know what they were going to do was unspeakably wrong but wanted to do it for some kind of sick enjoyment. How does a 10 yo get to that level of depraivity?