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James Bulger Case, on TV now

112 replies

Lizzylou · 11/12/2008 21:42

I remember this from when I was a student, but it didn't connect with me (although I was horrified) as much as now, as a Mom of 2 boys (one of whom is a toddler). James Bulger's mother seems so dignified, I'm not sure I could be in that situation.

OP posts:
devoutsceptic · 12/12/2008 12:44

Oh what a lot of rubbish Mamadiva. Honestly.

tiredemma · 12/12/2008 12:46

MamaDiva- if the childminding story is true, then I imagine that the Licencing restrictions imposed on them would stop them from going anywhere near there.

jingleMAMADIVAsbells · 12/12/2008 12:47

I am going on personal experience of child abuse though everyone is different but it is my opinion I know it may be wrong but from those in my life and at the end of the day that is the only experience I have I do not know these boys.

Maybe scum was a strong word to use I do apologise but I really fail to undertstand how people can move onto abuse when they have been hurt so badly by it. I know vicious circle and stuff but still thankfully the people involved in my life managed to move past it.

Also I have worked with children for a long time and I know that they lie to cover up for themselves but something like this I couldn't deal with I'd walk away and leave them to it.

jingleMAMADIVAsbells · 12/12/2008 12:50

I did say apparently I choose not believe these stories because personally I'm not sure if they'd be allowed to leave the country under licensing laws I was just saying that these stories have been published.

The one about Denise finding them has been confimed I read it an interview she did a while back.

devoutsceptic · 12/12/2008 12:51

Oh what a lot of rubbish Mamadiva. Honestly.

devoutsceptic · 12/12/2008 12:51

Sorry cross posted. But this sort of gossip-mongering is idiotic.

jingleMAMADIVAsbells · 12/12/2008 12:54

I know it is devoutsceptic that's why I said they have been published but I choose not to believe them it was kind of in reply to someone else saying they ahd been sent to another country.

Blu · 12/12/2008 13:00

mamadiva - the point is that some people, when abused as children NEVER learn to know what it is to care about an human, incuding themselves. They have simy never been able to develop any loving capacity. They don't have the same feelings that you or i would - love and care is larned. if it has been beaten out of you from day on, you just don't know how to empathise with another human.

Yes - I spoke to the ward manager about the boy i the hospital as a child protection issue - they do refer parents they see ill-treating children. BUT that case was extreme, but SO many parents were unsympathetic to their child's pain, put the TV on and left them alone all night while they went to the pub and didn't lave a number with the burses...bad parenting is common and rife - and the very violent and disaffected teenagers I see all over London are the result.

I don't think 10yo old boys consciously decide to 'do something bad because they had something bad done to them' - I think they just act seeking some sort of sensation or empotion or feeling of self-importance, or power, and have no capacity to feel pity or compassion or care, or anything for anyone else.

jingleMAMADIVAsbells · 12/12/2008 13:05

I myself have never been abused but I really can't understand how you can grow up and not learn what is right and wrong whether through school, friends or whatever I am not syaing it doesn't happen I'm not that naive I know it does to ALOT of people but thankfully I suppose do not understand it at all.

CatchaChristmasStar · 12/12/2008 13:08

The bit about them being moved to Australia is a load of rubbish, they're both still in this country, just with new identities. It was 'leaked' that they were there for their protection, but they're not.

Awful, I addressed this case in a module I studied whilst in my first year of uni. Very upsettng.

Gorionine · 12/12/2008 13:13

This thread had me reduced to tears. I have not seen the programm but I remember when it happened . I used to live abroad and the story was horrible enough to do front page in my home country too.

As a mother, I am pretty sure I would have hurt them very badly if I had been confronted to them, I might even have killed them, because it would be a desperate moter's reaction, but as just another humanbeing I have to reason differently and agree that had these two boys had a better starting chance things would probably be have had a very different outcome.

Now, RE them having been rehabilitated, I really hope they have been, and that they have become "normal" adults ( sorry I cannot find aother way of expressing it although I am pretty sure ther is one).I am not sure I do understand you MAMADIVA you seem to agree that violence is a vicious circle and still cannot apply it to this case (as I said I might have misunderstood you and I am sorry if I have).

Blu, I hope this is not a common trait of parents you have seen in your job. Have you reported the mother?

No19 · 12/12/2008 13:13

"I really can't understand how you can grow up and not learn what is right and wrong"

These boys reached ten or so and then committed this crime. Shouldn't we as a society hope that from ten on we can help them to understand the difference between right and wrong? Or should we brand them evil and of no use to society? In my view society fails its ten-year-olds if it does not help them at this point.

What is the point of the criminal justice system? To mete out punishment - give them a taste of what they inflicted on others? get revenge? - or to rehabilitate? If those boys had such horrible lives till ten, and are vilified for the rest of their lives, they are condemned by society and utterly failed by it.

Gorionine · 12/12/2008 13:14

Crossposte as it took me quite a bit to gather myself. Wanted to be just after devoutseptic

edam · 12/12/2008 13:15

Well, I've heard the same as MamaDiva about Australia/being in prison for killing a little girl. Only I heard it from a prison officer.

Divvy · 12/12/2008 13:15

I had a terrible thought while watchig this last night...What if they have children of there own now?

devoutsceptic · 12/12/2008 13:15

abused monkeys grow up to abuse their offspring

devoutsceptic · 12/12/2008 13:16

I doubt prison officers are the fount of all knowledge either. And given the number of prisoners who turn up in court with bruised faces, I'm not that sure of the professionalism of many of them either.

jingleMAMADIVAsbells · 12/12/2008 13:18

All I have to say about it that I hope they have been rehabilitated for their own sakes and everyone around them for their wives and children if they have them.

I do understand the whole circle of ciolence thing but I just cannot comprhend this level of violence being in any child.

edam · 12/12/2008 13:18

Um, my source is someone who worked with them in this country, emigrated to Australia and bumped into the one he'd worked with over there. Professionally.

devoutsceptic · 12/12/2008 13:19

He told you personally? From Australia?

edam · 12/12/2008 13:21

He is (PO) is Australia, yes. Was back here to see relatives.

edam · 12/12/2008 13:21

is IN Australia

jingleMAMADIVAsbells · 12/12/2008 13:21

devout they have phones in Australia you know

devoutsceptic · 12/12/2008 13:23

No, really?

People talk all sorts of crap.

tiredemma · 12/12/2008 13:23

There was a boy called Dante Arthurs who killed a girl in Aus and was suspected of being on of the boys, I think that the authorities over there quickly dispelled that myth (by going as far as finger print comparisons to prove to the public that they were different people)