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Original poster

The 'Underclass'. Discuss.

472 replies

MrsSeanBean · 07/12/2008 11:33

I am coining the term the media use to describe people living in similar circumstances to Karen Matthews - never worked, 7 kids, 6 dads, largely feckless and with no apparent aspirations.

Do we have one? Why?

Who or what is responsible?

When did it all go wrong?

What can be done to resolve the situation?

Answers on a postcard please.

OP posts:
Ivykaty44 · 07/12/2008 21:47

So would you like to see the return of the workhouse? Where people can move to when they don't have a job/employment, they would be given there food, a bed each night and in return they would work at the workhouse until they found employment.

southeastastra · 07/12/2008 21:47

i reckon mrsseanbean works for the sun

fortyplus · 07/12/2008 21:47

I really don't have a problem with people on benefits having an occasional glass of wine! It's the ones who - like KM - 'fail to succeed in putting their children's needs before their own'.

But they need help with this - you can't expect them to be motivated when it's so much easier to stay on benefits at the moment.

I bet most people on benefits would rather be earning a decent wage if they were able to, but some of them will never break out of the cycle without help.

southeastastra · 07/12/2008 21:48

be aware journalists use mumsnet as a major source

randyforsanta · 07/12/2008 21:48

Squeakypops I have plenty of dignity thanks ...more then you ..would never call another persons children bastards

dingdongmerrilyonpie · 07/12/2008 21:48

methinks squeakypops been on the pop!

SheSellsSeashellsByTheSeashore · 07/12/2008 21:48

Why does having different fathers for your children and having children outside of marriage make you part of an 'underclass' or a lesser person?

I have two children by two fathers I was for some part a single mother. I have had a job almost constantly since I was 15 years old, with only small gaps when I had my children (during which time yes I claimed benefits, I believe that I was entitled too after paying into the tax system)

I have finished college and am doing an ou degree in Psychcology as well as working fulltime, looking after my home and my children.

I don't consider myself to be 'underclass' because my children have different fathers and I am not married.

I think the judgement people get makes it harder for them go back into work. If the media and society in general think so little of you how can you have any confidence in yourself?

I also don't think that single mothers are given as much help as they could be in returning into the workplace i.e. they cannot go to uni without giving up their benefits yet a low paid job they could secure with no qualifications wouldn't cover childcare expennses and rent in many cases.

imo helping people into education and training would help this 'underclass' and most of them probably want helping. Life on benefits is not a choice a lot of people make its circumstances that they find themselves in.

TheNewsMongersGeansaiNollag · 07/12/2008 21:50

Dingdong, I know that, but I guess since I've been in this situation I have a lot more empathy for the underclass! I guess the difference is I want to escape the trap, and I will. But at the same time, experience has been very humbling and I understand the difficulties people are up against only too well. I am also far less judgemental of people who haven't the ambition to escape. I don't feel all that ambitious myself. I force it iykwim

squeakypop · 07/12/2008 21:50

Do you know anything about hte Christian faith, news?

It is not about tolerating a free for all. Far from it.

It is good to encourage holiness in the face of adversity. That does not mean encouraging shagging anything that moves, or supporting people to milk the state purse without any notion of contributing to their community.

We all have a role to play, however small. It doesn't have to be all take take take.

TheNewsMongersGeansaiNollag · 07/12/2008 21:51

Sheshells, ignore her. she's from the hell fire and brimstone holy roller department.

Lauriefairycake · 07/12/2008 21:51

"What good has ever come out of marital sex"

Children who are loved and adored

Sorry, I assumed from your posts that you were a Christian, clearly not squeakypop

PeachyBidsYouNadoligLlawen · 07/12/2008 21:51

working for benefits will create as manty problems as they solve.

So, if dh loses hois job next year as he could well do.... if he has to work will they fit it around my pt work/ if not, I would have to resign myself as ds1 cannot use childcare

What do siingle mums do with their kids when out working for benefits?

If I was single childfree and claiming, do you what, i'd think of it as a step back into wor and be pleased. I don't have problems with the idea per se at all

Just in a great many situations the practicalities

fortyplus · 07/12/2008 21:51

By the way - I work in public sector housing and can vouch for the fact that 99% of council tenants are indistinguishable from the rest of the population!

In fact I work with lots of tenants who are far better educated and more intelligent than me!

I know you'll find that hard to believe...

moondog · 07/12/2008 21:51

'I also don't think that single mothers are given as much help as they could be in returning into the workplace i.e. they cannot go to uni without giving up their benefits yet a low paid job they could secure with no qualifications wouldn't cover childcare expennses and rent in many cases'

Seashells, why should others give you the help to do this? i rather think it is the responsibility of the man/men yoyu had your children with. Why should I fund you as a consequence of your fractured family?

Bubble99 · 07/12/2008 21:51

Ivykaty. How about a couple of hours community work Monday to Friday with old people, for example? To fit in with school hours for those with children. Not demeaning or dirty. I don't see why or how anyone could object to that, tbh.

moondog · 07/12/2008 21:52

I used to work in public sector housing and have never before come across such a vile bunch of people.

Lauriefairycake · 07/12/2008 21:52

"judge not lest you be judged"

squeakypop · 07/12/2008 21:52

Why do you think this discussion is about you, seashells?

Bubble99 · 07/12/2008 21:52

For those with children at school or nursery. Or those without children.

PeachyBidsYouNadoligLlawen · 07/12/2008 21:53

But sp it does mean extending the idea of non judgement and tolerance, no?

of treating people with kindness; combating wrongdoing with love.

That's my take both as a Christian and a religion grad.

TheNewsMongersGeansaiNollag · 07/12/2008 21:54

So what would the minister at your christian faith church say to calling other people's children 'bastards'?

Would he say oh go ahead, good plan, insult somebody's children and make them feel sad and angry and look like a meanspirited bitch while you're at it??

I know that christianity values marriage,,,, but to call somebody's children 'bastards' for no other purpose besides nastiness is not something any christian faith would endorse.

dingdongmerrilyonpie · 07/12/2008 21:54

Excuse me ladies but can I just say it is extremely hard for ANY woman to re-enter the workplace when she has been a SAHM. Yes, even the rich ones.

moondog · 07/12/2008 21:55

Bollocks

Lauriefairycake · 07/12/2008 21:55

Of course not, she's preaching hate not love.

Clearly she's been on the sauce.

squeakypop · 07/12/2008 21:55

What is wrong with calling them bastards - isn't that what they officially are?

If you don't like it, you know what to do.

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