The 'Underclass'. Discuss.

[MrsSeanBean]

I am coining the term the media use to describe people living in similar circumstances to Karen Matthews - never worked, 7 kids, 6 dads, largely feckless and with no apparent aspirations.

Do we have one? Why?

Who or what is responsible?

When did it all go wrong?

What can be done to resolve the situation?

Answers on a postcard please.

What about the feckless men who get gurls pregnant and bugger off?

I think the feckless men are all the underclass women can get. Take it or leave it. Do you think a barrister is gonna come along and sweep Karen Matthews off her feet?

maybe they are the clever ones? we were told we'd all be lucky to survive into the year 2000 in the 80s

My church is opening a soup kitchen over Christmas (it may continue indefinitely depending on availability of shop premises during the credit crunch). It is something we can do do relieve poverty in our community.

We are in a very middle class dormitory community - but with pockets of real need.

Exactly dingdong, she probably did what any woman does and chose the best man she could using her flawed judgement.

'Oh, and whoever was going on about how it was better when people who had sex outside of marriage were 'shamed''

Did not suggest this at all! What an extreme and bizarre interpretation.

No era in society has ever been perfect and nor will it ever be. However, if you have a society where most ordinary people follow the same norms of behaviour (such as respect for each other, plain old decency and caring what others think about how you behave), then that is the society that I would prefer to live in, rather than the free-for-all (post social revolution) that we have now.

By the 1770's crime in Britain was rampant, even though there were over 200 offences that carried the death penalty, including minor crimes such as cutting down a tree.

Eventually, execution became considered too harsh and transportation was favoured as a more humane alternative.

From the 1620s, Britain had transported its convicts to North America. However, the American Revolution in the 1770s meant that this was no longer an option.

With nowhere to transport its convicts to, Britain's jails soon became more overcrowded and derelict ships known as hulks, many anchored on the Thames at Woolwich, were used as makeshift floating prisons.

In 1789, Britain was able to resume its transportation policy, sending its convicts to Australia. This practice finally ended in 1869.

Early 1800s London
In the early 1800s, London was a fairly unsafe place to live.

There was no London-wide police force until 1829 when the Metropolitan Police was established by Robert Peel. Prior to then, London crime prevention was largely carried out by parish constables and nightwatchmen.

Districts with the highest reported crimes included the City, Soho Covent Garden and Wapping - unsurprising since these were also heavily populated areas at the time.

Criminals included pickpockets, garrotters (muggers), mudlarks (who stole coal from barges) and lightermen (who stole bales of silk from boats).

1880's
By the 1880's, London was considered to be the safest place for people and property in the world. Crime tended to be linked to poverty - petty crime typically occurred mostly in winter or when prices rose.

Many Victorians believed that there was a hereditary criminal underclass which resided in London's rookeries, lodging houses and brothels around places such as Spitalfields and Drury Lane.

They undertook a campaign of slum clearance but this succeeded only in driving the criminals to outlying suburban areas such as Deptford and Vauxhall where they mixed with and influenced the honest poor.

Move on 130 years and we still face the same problems and challenges.

there is no real poverty in uk

newsmonger - you can design what you want your foodstamps to cover. It doesn't have to be just food, but shouldn't include smokes and booze.

Tesco sells pretty much everything that you need - children's clothes etc. You could use your food stamps there, but would need to pay cash for your Friday night bottle of wine.

yes, for real, randysanta.

What good has ever come out of extramarital sex?

I agree with that, moony.

Would it be wrong to make people do a little work for their benefits? Litter picking and so on. I think that it would benefit them, too - they would be showing that they can turn up on time, work regularly, etc. That would help them become a better prospect for an employer, wouldn't it?

Then the ones who failed to do the work would have to receive their benefits as food vouchers so wouldn't have the choice of spending it on fags and booze instead.

Or am I being totally unrealistic?

squeakypop - I'm a very boring happily married woman but had plenty of fun with extra marital sex before that!

Well rest assured, I never spend my benefit money on cigarettes. I don't even buy lottery tickets. I very occassionally have a glass of wine. Should my benefits be immediately rescinded.

I find your attitude lacking in understanding and empathy, you are too judgemental and your 'solutions' are ludicrously simplistic. All the more scary as you appear to be presenting yourself as a Christian??

I have 3 children with my dp we are not married ..your children better then mine are they?

not unrealistic at all fortyplus, in fact, I think we're heading that way slowly.

Squeakypop, I occassionaly have a glass of wine on a tuesday. What would I do then? Should my benefits be rescinded immediately?

squeakypop I live on a council estate too ..

Not unrealistic at all fortyplus. Why shouldn't people be expected to do jobs that need doing?
And I agree with food vouchers. What the hell are claimants doing spending benefits on fags?

I think harsh views are called for, news. The wishy washy approach has gotten us this far.

newsmonger - no-one is getting at you or people like you. We're talking about the underclass - people who do spend their benefits on fags and booze but whose kids don't have the things necessary for a decent childhood.

Fortyplus this is 2008 - not 1808 and no you shouldn't have to work for benifit for all sorts of reasons

What's your point, santa? Are council estates a problem? Do you keep your house and garden clean? Are you a credit to your neighbourhood?

Don't ask me to judge. Just judge for yourself. Have some dignity.

SqueakyPop!! You should NOT be going to church if that's the kind of thing you think!! It isn't christian and you are not fit to help out in a church.

Insulting people who've made a good point and challenged ugly sentiments is not an intelligent way to argue.

As a left leaning public sector worker, heavily involved in things like Sure Start in my 'spare' time, of course i empathise with the plight of the underclass.

Then i return to UK from a visit to my dh in Bangladesh where he is overseeing a multi million Euro project designed to lift 18 000 women out of dire poverty and I seethe with rage at the stupid indolent feckless idiots around me.

Peopel don't appreciate what they get fro free.That's an indisputable fact.