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The 'Underclass'. Discuss.

472 replies

MrsSeanBean · 07/12/2008 11:33

I am coining the term the media use to describe people living in similar circumstances to Karen Matthews - never worked, 7 kids, 6 dads, largely feckless and with no apparent aspirations.

Do we have one? Why?

Who or what is responsible?

When did it all go wrong?

What can be done to resolve the situation?

Answers on a postcard please.

OP posts:
mosschops30 · 07/12/2008 21:06

I havent read thread but heres my opinion.

Yes we do have an underclass, we used to have a working class (and still do) of people who lived in council accommodation but worked hard (or actively looked for work) kept their houses and property tidy and took pride in their families.

We now have an underclass of people that think benefits are a right and a way of life instead of working, they produce children then shirk all responsibility of raising them, get shifted from one estate to another with ASBO's etc.

I think the benefits system should be reviewed, of course benefits should be available to those in need, but it shouldnt be a choice instead of working

mosschops30 · 07/12/2008 21:07

sorry meant to say that not all working class lived in council or rented accom, I consider my parents were working class, both worked hard, owned their own home, just a normal family.

southeastastra · 07/12/2008 21:13

if you work, you're working class like it or not.

if you work but don't have to ultimatey because mummy and daddy will bail you out, then you're middle class

TheNewsMongersGeansaiNollag · 07/12/2008 21:14

Anna, I actually agree, there are people for whom even a job in a burger joint is too much. They've never had to attend some place every day, never had to be punctual, never had to respect the boss and bite their tongue etc etc

And why would htey be able to pull all of that out of the bag for minimum wage of a fiver an hour when they have a few children anyway???

Then men have less excuse. They're not looking after children.

mosschops30 · 07/12/2008 21:17

well our family has always been working class and always has been.

So where does that leave the people who refuse to work and live off the state .... the underclass!

mosschops30 · 07/12/2008 21:17

working nights = nonsense typing

squeakypop · 07/12/2008 21:20

The rot did not set in with Thatcher. Britain was very rotten for the five years that preceded her election victory. Short memories.

dingdongmerrilyonpie · 07/12/2008 21:22

not part of a superhero league, just don't think it's constructive to blame all todays ill's on someone who was in power 20 years ago, otherwise the thread won't move on, we'll all just be sitting here saying "so and so's to blame".

squeakypop · 07/12/2008 21:23

That is such bollocks, SEA

southeastastra · 07/12/2008 21:23

the benefit system is flawed

dingdongmerrilyonpie · 07/12/2008 21:25

See, I don't think the benefit system is flawed. In what way is it flawed? It feeds and houses families. Isn't that what it's for? So that no-one starves to death.

squeakypop · 07/12/2008 21:25

Not so bollocks from SEA. The benefits system is definitely flawed - in a big way.

squeakypop · 07/12/2008 21:26

dingdong, the benefits sysetm is flawed in that it gives hard cash to people who can then indulge in tobacco, alcohol, drugs and gambling.

Much better to give them food stamps.

sticksantaupyourchimney · 07/12/2008 21:26

While there are some low-paid menial jobs (shelf-stacking, cleaning, burger-flipping etc) where staff are treated like human beings, the minimum wage is paid and there is also the possibility of starting at the floor-mopping stage and progressing to a better-paid, higher-level job within the company, the majority of jobs available to an unskilled worker with no training and few qualifications tend to be utterly insecure, 'flexible' hours (ie you will be asked to work when they need you to but not be paid for the days/hours when they don't need you, yet you will be officially 'working' so therefore get no benefits), skimped health and safety procedures (it costs too much to implement them, keep your mouth shut about the risks because plenty of other people want the job you know) and a total indifference to your abilities and what you might actually be able to offer - so there's no point working hard when you will still be ignored, underpaid and at risk, promotions don't happen...
I sometimes think that a lot more advice/training etc to help people set up their own businesses might be more useful.

Oh, and whoever was going on about how it was better when people who had sex outside of marriage were 'shamed' - do fuck off. DO you really want to go back to the days of rape victims being put in lunatic asylums for 'moral feebleness'? The trouble with that kind of punitive 'morality' is that it was all about protectiing the rights of some people (men and the well-off) at the expense of others (women and poor people, who were property and/or didn't matter because they weren't really 'people' anyway0. That's why there was a social revolution.

Quattrocento · 07/12/2008 21:27

I'm not sure I agree with your definition SEA. I'd refer you back to Marx. Where are the bourgeoisie in your analysis?

randyforsanta · 07/12/2008 21:28

But its not always so easy to get a job is it?

southeastastra · 07/12/2008 21:28

pissing off someone i suppose

DoubleBluff · 07/12/2008 21:30

the benefit system is flawed.
It was intended to be a 'sfety net' - for times when people could not get work or were unable to work due to ill gealth.
It was not pu there because people could not be bothered to work.
The govt are wrong to target all their energies getting single mothers off benefits.
What about the feckless men who get gurls pregnant and bugger off?

abraid · 07/12/2008 21:30

Hee!

dingdongmerrilyonpie · 07/12/2008 21:31

But it's not the benefits systems fault that some individuals spend their money on fags and white lightning, the responsibility lies with the individual.

Agree about food stamps and think the door is very very quietly being opened towards food stamps and soup kitchens.

In USA it started with a softly softly nice approach like free breakfast club and fruit and veg vouchers. And ended up with food stamps, and I think we're headed that way in the UK. I think all these incentives are paving the way for the removal of benefits and I'm not sure whether it's good or bad.

squeakypop · 07/12/2008 21:31

sex outside of marriage has a lot to answer for

randyforsanta · 07/12/2008 21:32

I agree doublebluff..target single mothers let the children suffer...

southeastastra · 07/12/2008 21:33

maybe they've been abducted by aliens and really know that there really isn't any point in working like bastards for nothing

TheNewsMongersGeansaiNollag · 07/12/2008 21:33

Squeakypop, foodstamps?! Please! I need to buy other things besides food.

The benefits system is not flawed. There are those who abuse it, but like a pp said, it does do what it is intended to do..

But if you wish that there was no help for those who need it, then you should take a look at what's happening in Zimbabwe or Perú.

It is a blessing and a privilege to live in a part of the World that is socially responsible enough to give a shit about the least privileged least educated tier of society.

randyforsanta · 07/12/2008 21:34

Sex outside marriage ..are you for real...

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