The 'Underclass'. Discuss.

[MrsSeanBean]

I am coining the term the media use to describe people living in similar circumstances to Karen Matthews - never worked, 7 kids, 6 dads, largely feckless and with no apparent aspirations.

Do we have one? Why?

Who or what is responsible?

When did it all go wrong?

What can be done to resolve the situation?

Answers on a postcard please.

oh dont be so ridiculous random.

you are just wrong on so many levels. dont you know what people do when their benefits are taken away? They steal food. Then you have to bring in ever tougher penalties for thieves, and so it goes on.

and at the four babies at once. What a twat.

They steal food and sell themselves. And their children. It's happened all through history.

Glad it's not just me who's shocked by Itsjustsorandom's suggestions!

It's the last bit that scared me. I've mentioned my cousin on MN before. If my family not starving depended on him staying out of trouble I'd have to kill him. I'd be warm and fed in prison though...

Probably not Ninkynork because you'd be sleeping on a stone and eating gruel, I imagine, in Random's world.

I think if Random had her way, Ninky would be sleeping under the stone . Random's world is a very scary place.

Thye steal food and sell themselves. So if they are willing to sell themselves for money to buy food, why are not willing to hold down a job, any job??

Same reason they let such utter tossers shag and impregnate them I suppose. No self-respect.

Apologies for sounding like a crusty old Colonel with that last sentence.

I do feel sad that many women don't hold themselves as being of any value. And I feel desperately sorry for anyone who's life is so grim that not having a man around, any man, is something to be avoided at all costs

Squeezing benefits is only going to work if some coercion is used on larger corporations to pay a living wage to the lowest-level staff, not skimp on health and safety and not be allowed to give zero-hours contracts or short-term ones purely to avoid giving employees any rights. Otherwise it's just slave labour and the executives and directors will get richer and the poor even more desperate - and dangerous.

Latecomer to the thread, but it might be worth pointing out that on the estate where the Matthews family lived, most of the neighbours did have someone who was in paid work in their household. But a lot of the work that is available to people in this country (and in Ireland, afaik) just doesn't pay very well - it's not enough to support a family on.

Think KM was in the minority in never having worked.

Sixspot - But KM worked in Morrisons - that is paid employment is it not?

I was reading about KM and Shannon in the paper yesterday, and it occurred to me that we are obviously full of sympathy for Shannon because of her crap start in life, but if having passed through various foster care placements, in 4 or 5 years time she finds herself pregnant, she will suddenly become a "feckless single mother scrounging off the benefits system".

Sorry IvyKaty - took it as read from OP that she had not worked - apologies.

Bramshott - yes, indeed - I think that the director of Barnardo's made the same point about how if he had survived poor Baby P would also have morphed into a feral teen and been looked down on.

So if these children had not been born - due to contraception they wouldn't have to either suffer or be looked down on.

Contraception is an answer to help prevent unplanned pg - whether a teenager or woman that is unable to cope with the burden of motherhood to many children.

It could signifigantly reduce unneeded suffering of innocent human children, though not irradicate by any means the problems.

It would though in cases stop the circle of generations, growing up being abused and then abusing

itsjustradom- would you stop my carers bemnefit?

I think it was actually KM's partner who worked in Morrisons. From reports I read, she never worked herself.

KM's partner was a fishmonger somewhere, iirc.

Jeez, only read a few posts. Is this WHOLE thread just like the Daily Express then?

social mobility has grinded to a halt. the top jobs go to an elite of public school/oxbridge graduates. university education now costs as much as the average salary, and is only free to people who are both very badly off and very well educated (of which there aren't many)
Social mobility stagnates and of course the people at the bottom of the pool are more likely to get trapped there.

I have no idea I dont read the daily express? Is it like the daily express and what does that actually mean?

'is only free to people who are both very badly off and very well educated (of which there aren't many)'

Actuallyt hats not right

I am neither stunningly educated- sink school, flunked, Access course at 30- neither amazingly poor- but I received full loan (whioch I dont reppay until I ear £15k a year), childcare at 85% and dependants grants

It added up to a snesible if not flush living standard.

Now if by free you mean its repayable- well yes but its what it is; worth it imo. There are so amny jbs where a degree is still essential- and even when its not, it does give you amleg up on the competiton.

itsjustrandom - you're a troll right?