The 'Underclass'. Discuss.

[MrsSeanBean]

I am coining the term the media use to describe people living in similar circumstances to Karen Matthews - never worked, 7 kids, 6 dads, largely feckless and with no apparent aspirations.

Do we have one? Why?

Who or what is responsible?

When did it all go wrong?

What can be done to resolve the situation?

Answers on a postcard please.

Wow squeaky, it is chilling to see how you've so completely misinterpreted christianity and twisted it to back up your judgemenatal nature.

Suicide bombers have misinterpreted their texts too. Just because you read it and know it and can quote it doesn'tmean you have grasped it.

I think you should talk to your own minister/vicar. You haven't really 'got' it right.

Quite a thoughtful article in Knobserver today about KM and her ilk. I liked this quote
'But parents living in poverty who want better for their children are not helped by political attitudes that protect at every turn those who take no responsibility for their lives. No parent's 'lifestyle choices' should be exempt from scrutiny if they are clearly risking the welfare of their child.'

Some of us more then others squeaky

Full article

The thing is ballbaby- there are plenty of teenage mums who don't live off the state

there's a lady I know on here had her first baby as a teen, in no way is she a member of the badly-bamed 'underclass'; she has made a great ife for herself and her family, is bright, studying and to me an inspiration.

It would be far better talking to people who had beaten the odds and learning from them than just randomly beleiving that all teen mums will do X, Y and Z. Far more proactive.

One way i think- ad some earlier posts reflect this- is to make funding available for further ed not just higher ed. There's a very real gap of under qualified people who waznt to do something else but can't cross that gap. Unless you are 18 or married to someone who is fairly well off, further ed is hard to navigate. And as well as things ike access, further ed offers a lot of vocational stuff in itself tht could get poepe straight back into work. Good work; real skills that will see them in decent jobs that outlast recessions and pay bills.

Can you be more positive, news?

Why don't you tell us hwat you believe (and why) intead of criticising my beliefs?

Peachy - most people are not in your situation though. Many people moan about 'Where are the jobs that fit neatly around school hours?' - well, the answer is, there aren't many of them, and they tend to be low paid! So you organise childcare - childminder, after school club etc (and there are hundreds more of those about than when I went back to work after my kids!).
A lot of this is about having a 'can do' attitude isn;t it? If I'd sat on my arse whinging because paying nursery fees took up all my salary, or because my job doesnt fit neatly around school hours, then frankly, I think I'd have only myself to blame.

Well I am not a Christian, and proud of it. I don't think that adhering to one or other myth system is of any more relevance to what kind of person you are than your taste in music or whether or not you take sugar in your tea. I am also a single mother. My DS has a father who loves him, sees him regularly and contributes financially towards his upbringing, but he (the father) and I have to wish to form any kind of couple-relationship.
I work in a variety of unprecictable, short-term and flexible jobs that I can fit around childcare, I am gradually building some of these up in order to be able to stop claiming the percentage of housing benefit I get - and next year, when DS goes to school, I will be able to work more and pay less for childcare.
I think that an obsession with stopping other people from having sex rather than addressing the complex social and economic problems of the world at the moment is the sign of a stupid person with an unhealthy attitude, especially when that's coupled with a load of superstitous bullshit.

Well here's the thing - there are around 60 000 kids going through the care system. The next generation of underclass on a plate.
You can't blame the parents - the state ie all of us are their parents.
So what are we going to do?
Call them bastsrds and cross our fingers?

' I don't think that adhering to one or other myth system is of any more relevance to what kind of person you are than your taste in music or whether or not '

Well despite obvious differences I quite agree; there are good people, there are bad people- any other detail is pretty much irrelevant- faith, class, colour, marital staus- whatever.

Well I'm really hoping that the foster child I have in my care won't end up in the villified underclass.

My ExH is pure underclass. Has always ponced off women on benefits and wondered why I wouldn't put up with jacking in every job he ever had and staying on the Playstation all day while I got baby DD to childminder then worked full-time.

He is on disability for a bad back and "depression". That his Dad died and he doesn't see any of his kids, (not just DD) is reason enough it seems. Lives with MIL and all his money is his to spend, like pocket money. Bills, food, laundry, cleaning stuff all free. Oh, "he" is paying child support - £1.61 p.w, which comes from the tax payer, not him.

He is on a training course and has been for a few years. Fuck knows what he does all day, it doesn't seem to be leading to anything concrete, I think it's a way of the government manipulating the unemployment figures. He even tried to get out of sitting on his arse by complaining that the chair hurt him. They got him a special one apparently, they must be well used to his sort

Good point litchick. I know what I am going to do but I am priveledged to be able to even consider it.

Every time we love our own kids / feed them / etc we are doings omething strong and good, something that helps build a society that can address these issues positively.

But also every time we react positively to someone certain people might automatically dismiss- a 15 year old mum, etc- we might just help them to feel part of society, that they matter. That's doubly so when it comes to children, whose lives have so much potential.

We can do lots but it means getting out there and- well quite often just being friendly.

Laurie - by your actions and not your words will you be judged.

Bubble - I would be happy to spend a couple of hours with an older person, helping with shopping and cooking - but that is me and I like older people.

But what if the person doesn't want to be there - they may be nasty to a vulnerable older person because they see that person as a burden, if they dont go they dont get benifit.

Would you want to be the oldr person subjected to having a person helping you that was nasty to you becuase they didnt really want to be with you.

It happens now with people taking advantage of vulnerable older people.

Sorry but no, I wouldn't want to be looked after by someone who didn't like old people or want to be looking after me thanks but no thanks.

Exactly, and that is why its disgusting to call them bastards or any other derogatory term.

squeakypop on Sun 07-Dec-08 22:20:49
"reallytired,

what did Jesus say to the prostitute? Did he say that all was well with her actions and her life? No he didn't. He said, "go and sin no more". That is pretty clear. "

tbh I think most of us Christians don't need to worry too much about what he said to the prostitute. What we should study closely is what he said to the Pharisees. Because that is the bit directly aimed at us.

The Pharisees weren't bad people in their own right most of them. They were scrupulous about obeying the commandments- and about spotting when other people didn't. They were simply people who thought they had it sussed, who thought they knew exactly what sins were the worst in the eyes of God and felt confident at the thought that those were the sins committed by the Other Lot, the underclass.

I think we could all do with reading and re-reading what Jesus said to and about them.

Ooh cory, don't leave me hanging - what did he say?

You seem to have all the answers, Laurie. what are they? Are they any more than just love them where they are.

We have to stop 15 year olds from procreating. It is not doing them any good to pat them on the heads an to tell them we love them. Loving them is much, much than this.

It is right to form meaningful relationships with these people so that they don't have to resort to sex in order to be 'loved'. And that is hard work when done under one's own steam.

Is this underclass all about Jesus then? Getting really confussed here what has the bible stories got to do with it?

He gave us clear instructions through his meeting with the prostitutes.

His interactions with the pharisees were also important, but not more so that the one with the prostitute.

He had three years of ministry. There are many teachings for us to heed.

Jesus was a great advocate for the poor and anyone not in power, ivy.

prostitute - not plural

Good post there Cory. Precisely.

'It is not doing them any good to pat them on the heads an to tell them we love them. Loving them is much, much than this.'

it does them damned sight less good if after they make a mistake as a child we see them forever as only that one act, that moment and not a person; if we call thei=r children names; if we regard them as anything else than our equald who took different paths.

Extend the hand of friendship, show them the value of leading a productive life. But don't regard yourself as better (are you without any mistakes? ever? I certainly am not) or worse superior. Just different and yes, in many cases luckier: I am sure we all know the stats about teen mums coming from similar famillies etc.

And most of all don't jusdge on appearances. Those parents with the conjoined twins - Mum is teenage, yet they are married and seem to have enormous faith and to have handled a terrible situation with dignity.