The 'Underclass'. Discuss.

[MrsSeanBean]

I am coining the term the media use to describe people living in similar circumstances to Karen Matthews - never worked, 7 kids, 6 dads, largely feckless and with no apparent aspirations.

Do we have one? Why?

Who or what is responsible?

When did it all go wrong?

What can be done to resolve the situation?

Answers on a postcard please.

So what about non Christians? Or other religious denominations?

The Christian message applies to everyone, ivy

You're not equipped to convey the christian message squeaky. Please stop trying.

The only bearing faith has on behaviour is that be defining myself as X I am lodly stating ' this is what I believe' in a relatively understtod way- the truth is I am no more liely to actually behave like that than any other person, faithful or not.

When I say faith I definitely include all belief systems, at least except for perhaps some devil woprship cult or something. All the oes I know of (and thats a few, degree in world religions LOL) anyway

My take on this is that what I have to heed is not so much the part of the message that applies to other people (unless of course I am in a pastoral situation and people are asking for my advice): what I really need to concentrate on is the part of the message that applies to me. Because frankly, spending my time contemplating the sins of others, thought doubtless a very pleasant way of passing the time, is unlikely to achieve much either for my improvement or for theirs.

Why does it have to be Christian? Why bring religion into this?

No Christian messages dont apply to others that are not practing Christains, so why leave them out and make this a religious venture?

And God might well think that the state of my soul is the most urgent problem. To assume that I have the right to think otherwise does seem to come suspiciously close to the sin of pride.

I wasn't going to Ivykaty44, and it hadn't occurred to any of us to link the two, but then squeaky started refering to children as bastards and talking about her work as a christian in the soup kitchens......

sorry, Ivykat, just following on from Squeaky's line of reasoning. But you are quite right, the thread is wandering off.

The trouble with saying that the unemployed should 'work' for their benefits ie cleaning, litterpicking etc, is that this provides another way for corporations to profiteer: get the 'underclass' to do the work while the government pays them benefits instead of wages rather than employing people and paying them a decent wage. This was always the big problem with 'work experience' and youth training schemes: peope got taken on, worked hard and were then let go at the end of the 'training period' and replaced by someone else who didn;t actually have to be paid.

Good point sticksant- I lost a job once to a frankly shite 16 year old YTS girl. Whom I had trained. Fab

well base born/bastard is a tec term for a child born out of wedlock (up until 1994) and there are pleanty of other terms that were generally used when such a child was baptised - but of course the church would condem such a child as evil and it would live with him/her for the rest of his/ her life.

Such times have now gone - thank goodness and we do not have to live with thoses measures - nor the workhouse where you worked for your keep and were seperated form your spouse and children.

I get cross when people spout bollocks about my faith. I think that Squeakypop is twisting the bible for her own ends.

Anyway I think rather than an RE or sex education lesson is a bit irrelevent. I think that a total utter lack of self esteem causes a lot of teenage pregnancies.

There needs to other options for disenfranchised teens than GCSEs and these options need to be open to all teens rather than being seen as an option for those too thick to do GCSE. Prehaps there needs to be a wider choice at keystage 4.

I also think that more money needs to be available than at present to make sure that as many children learn to read as possible. Children need to be helped as long as they need it. A year of reading recovery lessons at the age of six is not just enough.

Severe strugglers should have one to one support with literacy up to when they leave school if necessary.

really tired, I thought that was what *14 was all about, getting those that are not going to produce acedemic results to change direction and realise that they can do practicle things in other areas - star 14 has been around now for well over 6 years. I think though uptake through schools is low but not sure of all the facts and wheather it is available in all parts of the country.

Teenage pg can be stopped and fairly easily through contreception and dishing it out well and efficently. But there are lots against this type of measure as it would increase sexual activity.

*14 cant be everywhere as I've never heard of it and I was a school mentor for a while

Agree with ReallyTired. If teenage pregnancies were caused by lack of religion you'd have to wonder why the rate is so relatively low in Sweden, arguably one of the most secular countries in the world (certainly far more so than the UK).

Oh we're back to literacy. It is very important. Did anyone else notice that the rules written for Shannon Matthews in the flat contained only one spelling mistake - "been" instead of "being"? I was very surprised. KM and this other chap have been playing the, "borderline learning-disabled" card in court but they were not as disadvantaged as people think IMO.

It's the peddling of religion that contributes to the teen pregnancy problem: all these superstitious fuckwits thinking that keeping children in ignorance about sexual health and contraception will stop pregnancies occuring when the reverse is true.

havent we already established though that these 2 were not legit benefit claimants though? he worked. technically not underclass (just horrid)

Literacy matters. at every step of the way. Yet getting hel for a child is a fight- well in a sysrem where autistic ids are routinely refused support, it would be!

some superstitious fuckwits

I've been a sexual health advisor for teenagers - that certainly did not conflict with my Christianity. It's always about informed choice.

Um

I am not a fuckwit

my children are not in iognornace about sexual health or contraception, actually theya e rather more informed about it than many their age

I don't expect or aprticularly want them to marry as virgins

Not all religious poeple follow the same 'rules' stickan. SOme of us are quite aware that our kids live in the real world- beside so did I when I was a teenager and nope I don't regret it because I too was clued up about sexual health and contraception.

Besides, I can neither expect my kids to follow my belief system notr my Dh- who is an Atheist.

Sticksand - i like you. you are one of the few that haven't deeply offended me on this thread

Yes, there are actually good reasons why one might want to be unemployed, rather than being in and out of badly paid work as often as you'd have hot dinners (which given the shifts of some such work, would not be often actually, so does this even make sense?).

You can study at College as part of Year 10 and 11 using the Star 14 programme.
Star 14 courses include:

Agriculture
Animal Care
Catering
Construction
Engineering
Environmental Conservation
Equine
Fashion and Textiles
Hairdressing and Beauty Therapy
Health and Social Care
Motor Vehicle Studies
Uniformed Services
Sport and Recreation
Theatre Costume

We offer a Student Apprenticeship in Hairdressing and Young Apprenticeships in Health and Social Care, Engineering and the Motor Industry.

Twilight courses are available in Law, Psychology, Photography, Fashion and Textiles and Theatre Costume for gifted and talented students. Parents Information

If you are interested in participating in the Star 14 programme - please contact your work related learning co-ordinator or head of year at your school

Taken from my local college site - to explain what it is.

found this aswell, so it is done in other areas (I dont live in Tower Hamlets)www.tower.ac.uk/courses002/6thform-08-09/14-16-vocational.pdf

Another Christian here who wishes to be dissociated from the charge of sexual fuckwittery peddling.

If Jesus agreed that you could rescue a donkey from a pit on the Sabbath (a major infringement of the commandments if you take them literally), then I am sure I could help a few teenagers to contraception, if I had the relevant training.

Slight x-post really as i don't agree about the sex-ed thing. While i am not particularly concerned if my DDs stay virgins until they marry, i would very much prefer them to be in a long term stable relationship before they have sex.