Baby P

[GeraldineMumsnet]

Hi, to make it easier for people who are finding this subject very distressing, we're going to keep all Baby P posts in one thread. If you'd like to discuss this subject, then here is the thread to do so. We'll go on the other threads and link to this one. Thanks very much.

4 children a week! My god, that's appalling, and I was appalled by the previous figure of 1 per week.

Is anyone else following this case filled with what I'd call impotent rage? I have stopped reading the details of Baby P's case as I have spent every night for the last week crying myself to sleep. I am still following the case keenly, but don't want to know any more details. I can't get those details I do have out of my head. I am so, so angry and upset about it all, and desperately want to do something to help start changing things, but what? I don't have the money to donate to NSPCC or whatever. I am a working single mother with 2 year-old twins, so I don't exactly have free time to go about campaigning/fundraising either. But I wish there was something I could do. It would make me feel better. So far, all I've done is sign a petition calling for stronger sentencing for these animals, written to my MP, and written to Radio 4 about the Moral Maze and one small suggestion for what I think can be done to improve the so-called 'feral' class.

I've never posted on Mumsnet before though I've glanced at it from time to time. However, reading these messages about the horrendous case of baby P has been so comforting and I felt I had to add something. Like so many of you, I have been deeply disturbed and upset by the suffering of this child. It has helped to know that others feel as distraught about it as I do. There are so many concerned people, many of them mothers, and you have to ask what can we do to help, even if it's in some small way. I wonder if there are any SWs who could advise on this, or anyone who works in child protection. Is there anything we could do from outside these professions to protect babies and toddlers in particular? I had this (probably crazy) idea that each child identified as being at risk and allocated a SW, could also be allocated a volunteer layperson as the child's 'Concerned Adult'. They would visit the child - or take it to the park? or be allocated the child for 2 hours a week? Obviously, I realise there are lots of issues - the layperson would need vetted for a start, but it would give the baby more adult contact and supervision. I'd think there would be a good number of mothers like me who, although they work and have a family, could spare 2 hours, even on a week-end.Any views?

Timeoff, I think that's a great idea. Not sure how practical it is, but it's a fantastic idea and I really like it. Wonder if any SW MNetters could let us know what they think?

Yes that was the idea NewlyMarried - not bringing any more children into the mix. I'm aware it's a bit radical and I'm not even sure if it's truly a good idea but this case of Baby P started me thinking along these lines. I'm sure the circle of abuse starts generations back. I'm sure we could do a lot more as a society in broader or deeper terms such as targeted education, support, counselling and social services/medical monitoring working better and agencies communicating better etc, but it strikes me time and again that women who seem to feel nothing or worse than nothing for their children are more likely to have numerous kids by numerous men, likely to have a deep lack of self awareness and self esteem and be attracted to abusive men etc etc. I am all for bringing more love and understanding into the world but maybe these women should also be encouraged to simply not have more children. Not for punitive reasons but for practical and humanitarian reasons!

Timeoff that does sound a good idea! Why not write to whichever powers-that-be are appropriate with your suggestion? It's simple but could be very effective. I'm not a SW though - so any one here to comment on how practical?

for anyone interested in volunteering with vulnerable families and/or making a difference to socially-disadvantaged childrens lives here is a good place to start

you could also look here

Thanks for this. These are good ideas, but in these cases it seems always to be about supporting the parents. By definition, these parents must be open to receiving help in the first instance. The most vulnerable children will probably not be in such families, as abusers would not welcome or seek out interference from the outside (I'm guessing). What I'm interested in is in supporting the child him or herself, directly. Giving the baby or toddler another adult in their life. I could write to an authority, but nothing would happen. A more direct discussion would be more helpful. I suppose I could contact my local authority and try to get to the right person.

Optimist I am feeling the same as you. Thoughts of Baby P keep flooding into my mind all the time. At work, when I am with my children, whenever I see a newspaper

Last night I dreamt he was safe,then awoke and remembered what happened to him and couldn't sleep again.

I just can't process the information about the horrors he endured and feel so powerless. The safety nets were theoretically in place and still no one stopped it.

timeoff, the stark truth is that if evil people want to hurt children they will

unless you are living in their house with them you cannot save every child

many families are helped, some time near the beginning of an abusive situation, by just hearing from an impartial source that they do not have to endure it

sometimes it is too late, but thankfully there are many agencies who keep on trying and trying in the face of many obstacles-extreme poverty, cycles of abuse, drugs, lack of education etc etc etc

Anfucker, I've decided to volunteer with Home Start. I know that these are not the most vulnerable children/families, but it's something I can do. Timeoff, sadly I think that you/we will not be allowed to help those most at risk. The nature of abuse means that SWs are often placed at significant risk when they deal with affected families, and I don't think the authorities could allow a situation where unpaid and poorly trained volunteers (in comparison to qualified & trained staff) would be placed at risk. Imagine the scandal and the field day the tabloids would have if a volunteer was hurt in this scenario. Plus there is the angle that most volunteers may not be emotionally equipped to deal with what they experience. Even experienced SWs are often traumatised by some cases they have to deal with. I think the only way we can help those at most risk it to campaign for better child protection laws and more funding to implement it. On a face-to-face basis, community involvement through something like Home Start is about as far as we can go. I've decided to do it. Not only is it a way of me 'giving something back', I like to think that if agencies like this can help stamp out low-level abuse (e.g. where families are so stressed that neglect can follow, as opposed to wanting to deliberately hurt children) then hopefully this will free up SS to concentrate on more difficult cases. Thanks for the link AF.

optimistS, you are so right, I could not put it better myself

So I've just read on the BBC website that the police are investigating 'an internet hate campaign' against a website with Baby P posts They haven't named the website so I don't know if it's Mumsnet, but it just makes me really angry that they will find resource to look into this when they couldn't/wouldn't do anything in the Baby P case

Just read in the news that mp's wont be getting the full report on the mistakes made in the baby p case? Anyone know why?

I will be contacting my mp to ask what he'll be doing about this. The full report should be poublished by the newspapers so we can all see what tax payers money is being spent on and also so that those involved will not escape with a telling off & 'lessons learnt' but will face criminal charges.

cupsoftea - that makes me very

Perhaps the police should be investigating the BBC first and foremost. The page naming the mother and boyfriend was still up a few days ago, long after the court order which prevents the papers from doing so had been imposed.

I would imagine that the majority of the websites they will be looking at will have found the information in this way. One site which was mentioned here earlier has directly linked the cached BBC page.

weeglenny- I think it's Facebook/Bebo they are talking about because there has been several groups about it and some even naming his eldest sister who was also apparently abused

It's shocking but for the protection of the other children they cannot be named. Most of us know the names now though but it's because these groups are deliberately trying to incite hatred.

What I think is most shocking though is the fact that they showed where his ashes are when his Dad says he didn't want people to know because he didn't want the people who took him away to disgrace his memory by grieving there. Yet the public have decided to go there and put toys, flowers and letters there, it's not right it's not a tourist attraction it's somewhere private for his family.

Someone I know from another site lives in Wales and said she is going to go to England for a holiday with her 3 kids and is going to 'visit' Baby P and James Bulger's grave as it's something she's always wanted to do

That really annoys me again they are graves for famillies to visit not for random people to go so they can boast about it.

Can't believe they are not getting the full report that is disgusting, it should have been down by now anyway it was almost a year and a half ago! They need to sack those who failed and put money into proper training so that this doesnt happen again even though it happens all the time, we just dont hear about it

Oops sorry for ranting

Ah I hadn't realsed about Facebook - I'm not a member. Very sad about Baby P's ashes, I completely agree with his Dad's wishes - every time I find out more details about this it brings tears to my eyes

I can't stand FB either joined about a year ago but hate it think ive been on twice since.

Agree weeglenny it is getting more and more upsetting everytime you read another article I think all the pics are totally innapropriate though.

I got an invite to join a group on Bebo from a friend (the one who is taking her 3 kids on holidays to see 'famous' graves ) and it's called Respect and RIP to Baby P, the profiel pic is the computerised graphics of his injuries. How is that in anyway respectful? I do not and will never join these groups totally disgusting.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/651910-We-are-all-upset-by-awful-news-stories-but-you

Thanks Jajas - done

Mamadiva - you are so right.
I don't know why people feel they have the right to know everything about this case even if it will cause more harm to family members.

Can't believe that people are visiting graves of murdered children as part of their leisure break or holiday?!?! Disgraceful!

The money they are spending to do this would be better donated to a childrens charity. And the time they are spending doing this would be better spent voluntarily helping those less fortunate.

OptimistS, you are right - I'm being naive. I will also look into Home Start...it would have been good to hear from anyone in the child protection field though. Good luck with it & let us know how it goes.

NewlyMarried - better donated to NSPCC for example

Mamadiva, rant all you like my dear

I do hope that Ed Balls gets forced to release that report. He is hisding behind the Freedom of Information Act ATM

Methinks he is trying to hide the failings of a Labour borough

He has been advised that all they have to do is block out the names of staff and they can release the report - so why is he refusing to do so?????

Makes it very diffilcult to trust people when they go all secretive on you (and try to hide behind legislation) doesn't it?

[cynical emoticon]