Baby P

[GeraldineMumsnet]

Hi, to make it easier for people who are finding this subject very distressing, we're going to keep all Baby P posts in one thread. If you'd like to discuss this subject, then here is the thread to do so. We'll go on the other threads and link to this one. Thanks very much.

Well, put it this way, LittleBella

I have some middle-class friends who live in Haringey. When their ds was around 14 months, he broke his arm falling out of his highchair. He was whipped away from the parents immediately, they weren't allowed to be by his bedside that night in hospital or to be alone with him at all for a week during which time they underwent the most gruelling set of interviews with social workers and police. They are still regularly visited. And - much as it pains me to say it because my friends are the most loving parents imaginable - quite right.

In that case, you couldn't fault Haringey social services for vigilance. So how come they didn't do the same for Baby P when he kept going to hospital with injuries etc, etc, etc. It strikes me there must have been some type of inverse snobbery at work.

And BTW, this "abuse happens in middle class homes too" argument is a red herring. Yes, it does. And obviously social services should be vigilant to it. But why does it follow that, because some middle-class families abuse their children, a certain minority of the so-called underclasss (phrased that carefully because yes, I know many very poor people bring up their children brilliantly) should allow their children to live in squalor while their parents take drugs and watch video games all night?

here's the article, googled it

I don't think it is "quite right" that they weren't allowed to be with their 14 month old DS for a week. Imagine how frightening and upsetting that must have been for him.

But yes, it's v. difficult to tell from anecdotes whether Hitchins is right and there's a pattern.

Although a lot of that article is absolute guff, I do agree that SS expectations of the families they deal with are simply too low.

Why did Maria Ward accept that baby P was confined to his pushchair and shut in the kitchen alone? Because that is simply what they expect to see from families with children on the at risk register.

SS seem to accept that these children will 'live in squalor while their parents take drugs and watch video games all night'.

Imo the expectations of the minimum standard of care should be the same for all, regardless of class or lifestyle. And they are clearly not.

They weren't allowed to be alone with him for a week, grandmother had to be present

Meant to do itallics on alone but it didn't work!

ah yes that sounds more reasonable.

There's a text message doing the rounds giving the names of the parents, their lodger and the street and area where they live. Don't know how correct it is though

Because of the other children who have to be anonymous, therefore the parents names have to be kept out of it to avoid identification.

I expect there are legal proceedings in relation to the other kids, if not criminal charges pending,

Mamadiva the 'mother' was still married to P's father, although they had been separated since he was 3 months old, iirc.

No idea why the lodger was named and not the other 2, not that it matters now as their names and faces are all over the internet.

JuJu at least hopefully he had some periods of respite from the torture then, whilst at the CM's or when the grandmother was present

As far as I can remember she was still married to Baby P's dad and even if she wasnt she would not have able to change Baby P's name with the fathers consent.

As for the step parent sentiments on this thread nope it doesnt bother me. There are many more challenging aspects to "step aprenting" than that!
I was advising someone of the lone parents forum to met her ex's new gf basically for safety's sake. Its important to be vigilent about who is caring for your child. The baby P case clearly demonstrates that. I cannot help to wonder about the contact he had with his father...

Murders by step mothers are very rare much rarer that murders committed by biological mothers on their children. With step fathers its a different kettle of fish. DP would have the figures somewhere but as I understand it step fathers are more likely to murder than biological fathers.
I know DP is scared his ex would get together with an abusive bloke.

OMG. I just looked at that FB page.

Where are these pictures coming from? There is one which I think is defo not Baby P as like you say has browneyes, sad thing is though there are groups everywhere and I keep getting sent invites and I wont be joining!

There is a picture of the mum though and there is one of the lodger, he looks really evil in the first oe and then scared shitless on his wayinto court, then again they had to put him in isolation because the prisoners had a plot to maim him with razorblades probably terrified.

I hope these groups dont have any influence on the trial for what they did to the elder sister because there is no way they should walk free for that and also Jason should be done with statutory rape shouldnt he? He was sleeping with a 15 YO?

i keep getting the invites and the texts MamaD-I won't be joining either, i really don't see what good any of them do tbh except-as i say-seem to create vigalantism(is that a word?)

Havent had texts only invites there is about 10 groups on bebo, who are these saddos?

Its not a race to see who can find out most and create the nicest page, theyd be better spening their time on the computer sending some emails that might actually get something done.

TC's mother's name and address has been given out on Facebook too

and the name of at least one of her other children.

Think that's out of order tbh

Yes J should be done for stat. rape. Her parents should be done for neglect as well if you ask me. What really surprises me is that none of the older siblings let anything slip to their dad or at school. Probably the wee souls were just terrified.
RE the class argument. I don't know how valid it is but similarly folk we know put the baby in a car seat on the table and it fell down and broke an arm. They were cross examined/ visited for a year afterwards. So I can't understand how this happened.

Although I think its a gross oversemplification to turn it into a class argument. People did that as well when middle class parents left their kids home and went out. I don't want to dredge up the details but when the child went missing people were saying "if these people had been poor and working class they would have had the other kids taken away/been prosecuted" I hate when it all goes back to class.

mamadiva, what happened to the elder sister of baby p?

yes, i accidentally stumbled on a vigilante page of a social networking site but i will not take part in any of that. it won't solve the problem.

All this posting of their details is so counter productive. It will simply mean that there won't be any chance of a fair trial regarding Baby Ps siblings ie they will be acquitted or the convction will be quashed on appeal.
Also if the siblings new families feel under pressure from publicity the placements are likely to break down.
Who is likely to suffer here?

oh i've had my post deleted! first ever!-sorry if i offended anyone by posting the link, didn't realise i wasn't allowed