can we please note how useless the Tories are being in this current crisis?

[morningpaper]

They have NO IDEAS

Even the Telegraph reported Cameron as giving one of his worst performances in the commons

Yes he has been noticeably conspicuous in his absence.

Yes. Brown suddenly looks a lot more secure doesn't he

It also seems that Brown and Darling are not only more of a partnership now, but that Darling is taking more evident control of his role, rather than just being in Brown's shadow.

(Maybe that's just the way the media is portraying it, but it's an interesting development I think)

Bizarre that the man who screwed up British finances and left nothing in the coffers for the bad times is suddenly being percieved as the saviour of the free world.

erm

can you just explain how Gordon Brown has "screwed up British finances" exactly?

we all know about his faux pas with the gold so nil points for mentioning that one

Yes - it just shows how inept Osborne and Cameron are.

Though Vince Cable has been really good, but he was well prepared having warned us about this for years.

As I said on another thread, Brown is somewhow getting credit for fighting fires that he allowed get out of control. A decent opposition would not have allowed that to happen.

MP - Gordon Brown screwed up British finances by enabling the credit bubble. During the boom he claimed to have abolished boom and bust. Now the boom is over we are exceptionally vulnerable to the inevitable downturn. A prudent chancellor would have put something away in the good times but it seems that did not happen.

Contrast Brown's statements with Cable's (culled from another forum):

Gordon Brown, 1997:
"No more boom and bust."
"I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the recovery."

Vince Cable, 2003:
"the Financial Service Authority already has a role regulating individual mortgage lenders. Its remit should include systematically reining back the more reckless institutions (Northern Rock is an example) which are operating on dangerously high loan to asset ratios."

Vince Cable, 2004:
"First time buyers are now being either priced out of the market or are being forced to take on loans at risky levels. It is time for the Government to take action to protect ordinary homeowners against irresponsible lending."

Gordon Brown, 2008:
"We've seen house prices rise by about 180% over the last 10 years and they have risen by about 18% over the last three years, so a 2.5% fall is something that is containable."

Thank you Upwind, put far better than I could have done too.

didnt Gordon brown sell all our gold when the gold market was at it lowest?

not sure if it relevent to this as its someting in heard dh wittering in about

maybe so, but last time I checked it was Labour in charge. As they been for the last 11 years. What exactly is it you expect the Opposition to do at this point?

'Bizarre that the man who screwed up British finances and left nothing in the coffers for the bad times is suddenly being percieved as the saviour of the free world. '

Wasn't DC a finance advisor to the tory Government in the last recession? Sure I read he was (though may have read it someplace wrong I guess- usually on here tbh!)

Brown does seem more in control, he did this morning. Good, I am glad. DC has no visible policies and unless he develops some (in which case I will try to consider failry) he scares me

Is this a joke thread?

Upwind this started way before Gordon Brown - the deregulation of the banks in the late 70's is a major contributing factor. We can thank Maggie T for that!

true enough Jazzicatz - I already had credit coming out of my ears well before Labour came to power - when I was on a non-fixed, low income too. Not much regulation in evidence there. The credit-boom started under the Tories. But it's been obvious to anyone with half a brain that if this was allowed to continue unchecked it was all going to blow up in our faces. Particularly the man who famously said 'No more boom and bust'. This country is now going bust!

Gordon Brown definitely shares responsibility; he has pushed government borrowing to unsustainable levels, has undertaken financial shenanigans such as PFI and did nothing to control the credit bubble.

I agree that each successive govt have played their part but its so simplistic to say that its one particular govt and one particular policy. Also do not forget that we are now part of a globalised market which also further exacerbates the problems!

Noted. But I knew anyway.

Thought this was funny:

Vince Cable, the Liberal Democrats Treasury spokesman, savoured the moment. "I have been stunned by the sudden conversion of the champions of the bonus culture to advocates of 1970s style incomes policy," he said.

Tinker

Jazzicatz - not defending Maggie T, but Labour have had a LONG time to put right her wrongs - for this bust they should get the credit.

I think it's almost war footing at the moment, ie, less opposition until the crisis is under control.

Mighty funny isn't it that Maggie Thatcher was apparently so bad and yet in the 18 years since she was in power, no government has reversed any of her major policies.

indeed, chocolatedot, in another 18 years they will probably still be blaming her for any wrongs

They can't afford to take back what was ours into state ownership. Except railtrack.

Why the Lib Dems could not persuade Vince Twinkletoes to become their new leader instead of that buffoon Clegg still escapes me
He is a shrewd and capable man IMO
and agree the Tories are not really rising to the occasion