can we please note how useless the Tories are being in this current crisis?

[morningpaper]

They have NO IDEAS

Even the Telegraph reported Cameron as giving one of his worst performances in the commons

What can the tories actually do though?I think they cant disagree with whats being done as they will be labelled as doing it to score political points whilst the country goes bust..so they kind of have to agree with the rescue package,which makes them look like they've no ideas of their own.And if they did vocalize their ideas its not like Labour would say , 'thats a brilliant idea David, we'll use that..and by the way, what a great prime minister you will make next time round', is it?

Ive always been a leftie but not anymore..I have never been this disillusioned about the government before..I think its time for a change..I cant believe im considering voting Conservative.. >>sigh

Seduced.

They are the Opposition. Its their job to Oppose. They could point out that GB was a wally to sell all that gold, and other things. Then again, a chap who looks like a banker is not going to inspire confidence in most people atm, is he.

MorningPaper,are you Pollt Toynbee?

Polly Toynbee,even?

'other than a few confused mumsnetters...) '

or intelligent informed people who happen to have a different opinion to you?

Lord save me from people who think everyone who thinks differently to them is a confused person: its the one character trait I struggle to tolerate

Oh come on Nighbynight, you really think they haven't pointed that out already?

And this idea that the rich belong only to the Tories is daft. Remember Mandelson saying early on 'New Labour is intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich'? Plenty of people have in the last 11 years, not all of them outside the Labour fold. Only back in March THIS YEAR John Hutton said "Rather than questioning whether huge salaries are morally justified, we should celebrate the fact that people can be enormously successful in this country...We want more millionaires in Britain, not less". And he is not a Tory.

New Labour has cosied up to the bankers and the rich since before they came to power. And I don't expect that to change under any administration.

bob, I was giving an example of how the opposition should oppose. Opposing is a specific role in british politics, yes it is different from being in power. The tories are not doing either role at the moment.

er, did I say that only tories are rich? no, I just pointed out that there is a disproportionate number of bankers in their party.

nah, you said they're all bankers! And as for the example of how they should oppose, they've had 11 years' practice, so I think they've got it fairly well covered. You seemed to be implying they hadn't. I'm sure if you have a scout round the papers, there'll be a few Tories doing the Opposition thing. But the media is more interested in Labour right now for the reasons I gave earlier - just reckon Labour's getting favoured (if that's the right word) on the airwaves. This obviously makes the Opposition less visible. I think I recall reading somewhere Cameron got bumped off GMTV recently because the PM 'made himself available'.

Are the people who are criticising the sale of gold before the price peaked going to say thank you Gordon when the tax payer makes a killing on buying up cheap bank shares? nGovt's don't just sell off gold without looking at their "asset allocation" and getting advice.

Do we want to start on the relationships between hedge fund managers and various Tories? Plus all the things that the Tories have said in favour of free markets in VERY recent time?

When the govt intervenes we accuse them of runninga nanny state. Now we blame them for not intervening.

What's wrong with people getting filthy rich. That is not incompatible with compassionate govt that intervenes on behalf of the less fortunate.

Perhaps MN should have a section of Labour Moms/Dads and another for Tory Moms/Dads to keep you all apart?

i hate the way we lay the blame on govts for our OWN excesses. It is we who borrowed and consumed too much; the govt didn't give away our money to aliens from out of space when we weren't looking?

"By ToughDaddy on Thu 09-Oct-08 23:21:53
Are the people who are criticising the sale of gold before the price peaked"

It wasn't just that he sold off our assets stupidly, he also managed to do it in a stupid way by announcing in advance that he intended to flood the market and so ensuring that our gold was sold off at a very low price

"... going to say thank you Gordon when the tax payer makes a killing on buying up cheap bank shares? nGovt's don't just sell off gold without looking at their "asset allocation" and getting advice. "

You really reckon the tax payer is going to make a killing out of this bail out?

There's no point in labour even if donald duck supporters having such disdain for those who generate wealth. It's that money that is funding your benefits and allowing many to take take take and not work. Don't bite your sugar daddy!

And let's get rid of this dreadful government.

Upwind- LONG term buyers of key banks shares will make money especially if you solve their wholesale funding problems. HBOS is a bargain for Lloyds in business terms.

Squeaks- In my opinion this govt has been much FAIRER than the last. I hope that Dave will be fairer when he gets in but I am not convinced just yet so Brown gets my vote as Labour still has fairness as an objective and have made steps in that direction, although they have made some operational mistakes. I guess that you think the last Tory govt was great??

What is so great about a party that doesn't really think women and minorities can be MPs?

Don't get me wrong, I like Dave - he would really fit as a Blairite in New Labour- I just don't like what his party represents.

I am not especially political - in fact seeing a politician on TV usually has me reaching for the mute button - nearly all self serving imo.

However, as a nurse, midwife and HV I can say that the resources under the Labour govt are much better than under the Tories - end of.
If I come across families in crisis there are now resources to refer them into - not enough but at least there are some there which were not there under the Tories.

I think we will have a Tory Govt after the next election. Fine, no problem, always good to have new and fresh ideas BUT I will be devastated if they remove the precious resources in a cost cutting exercise - no resources = no support which was what existed under the last Tory govt. The results of not supporting families in the 80s and early 90s are all around us. The children are now parents - lets not repeat the probs of the past?

Have already written to DC to beg him not to undo some of the good things the Labour govt have done.

But how can you measure fairness? If you take money from the hard-working middle classes and give it to those who don't want to work, then how is that fair?

And what do we have to have to show for it?

Squeaks- it was the Labour Govt that encouraged people back to work with welfare to work scheme and making the tax system at the lower end more rational. I know two minority young men who hadn't worked for decades who trained and went to work under this scheme for example.

I am a well off middle calss person and OI DO NOT like pay taxes but I understand that the measure of a society is how it helps the vulnerable. I don't mean handouts - altho sometime necessary. I still remember the ugly attacks on the vulnerable from the last govt. I think that Dave is a good guy but I don't feel safe with a party that is middle class with objectives that are "middle class". We are a well off country, however, difficult things are and we should have objectives for wider society and not just whinge about taxing the middle classes. We have done well in the last 15 years so let's think about broad society.

bob - how patronising of you. "think they've got it well covered"
er no actually, they have their good moments and bad, just like the government. They arent shining particularly in the opposition role at the moment. Are you a tory activist or MP?
btw, I was at Oxford at the same time as Cameron, Gove, Vaisey et al, and also studied politics. Maybe that's why I don't share your blind faith that they've "got it covered".

"all bankers" was a joke obviously - perhaps I should have put one of those boring joke alerts.

off to the city now :-)

lol
dont lose any banks, now will you