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Original poster

Church schools should stop discriminating against teachers and pupils, say church leaders

375 replies

edam · 30/08/2008 09:40

This news story is interesting. New group of church leaders and 'secular figures' campaigning to stop religious schools discriminating against non-religious families and staff, or those from the 'wrong' denomination.

(I have looked to see if there's a thread on this already but couldn't find one.)

OP posts:
Swedes · 03/09/2008 18:12

Nooka - The Archbishop of Canterbury has already been ultra http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7233335.stm vires

Swedes · 03/09/2008 18:12

sorry here

solidgoldbrass · 03/09/2008 18:13

AtheneNoctua, so how do people who are not Christians but happen to live in your street fit into this 'single community'? Should they move house? Lie to the effect that your imaginary friend is better than their imaginary friend? Or simply accept second-class status?

And just to clarify, by 'Not Christians' I mean Jews Sikhs Muslims Hindus Buddhists Vauduns Druids Wiccans Atheists and apologies if I have left anyone out.

Do you live in a totally whitebread area or something?

AtheneNoctua · 03/09/2008 18:26

Actually, solidgoldbrass, you'll love this part. The school is so far from my street that the kids have to get on a bus to get there. There is no C of E school in the town I live in. So we enrolled in one two towns away. We don't even live in that LEA. I suppose we are extended community members. I put into the school and church as much as a I take away. So no I don't feel guilty about taking someone's "local scool" place. Two of them actually. I was a class rep last year, I help run fund raising events, I am available most evenings (but not at the school gate). For the church I teach/assist Sundday school once a month, I make dinner for Alpha courses. I'm pretty much happy to do anything I can manage before/after work. But I'm sure there are those who think I tokk thier kids rightful place because they live spitting distance from the school and I don't.

AtheneNoctua · 03/09/2008 18:28

By the way, refering to God as an imaginary friend is just plain rude. If you want to have an honest and open debate you don't need to be offensive.

Also, we do have children of other religeons at our school. They are nice people and we are friends with them too... of course!

Swedes · 03/09/2008 18:29
Swedes · 03/09/2008 18:30

the

CountessDracula · 03/09/2008 18:35

Alpha courses sound cultish
are they?

msdemeanor · 03/09/2008 18:37

Athene if you taking a place not even in your LEA which means that someone close to teh school cannot have a place then you should be ashamed of yourself. You clearly think you have the right to make other people's lives more difficult just so you can indoctrinate your poor kids to believe in your imaginary friend .

nooka · 03/09/2008 18:39

Swedes what do you mean ultra? i see Rowan Williams making some foolish noises for which he was mostly condemned. That is of course his prerogative. I am talking about more than lobbying type activities.

spicemonster · 03/09/2008 18:41

Replace CofE with white. Offensive isn't it?

How did those children of other religions get into your school Athene? Did they lie?

ReallyTired · 03/09/2008 18:42

Why do all these people who believe in Jesus behave in a fashion that would disgust him.

The bible makes it clear that Jesus loves the children on AtheneNoctua's street. He would not exclude them.

Surely Christians should be mixing with the families on their street spreading the Good News.

Swedes · 03/09/2008 18:43

Nooka - He's the Archbishop of Canterbury - it's not his place to suggest ways in which our legal system might be changed. He should have saved it for the pub.

donnie · 03/09/2008 18:44

'witless superstition'
'stupid people'
'imaginary friend'

you are very offensive aren't you solidgoldbrass? nice that you aren't generalising there - after all that would be discriminatory would it not?

spicemonster · 03/09/2008 18:45

CD - I think some might consider them to be. Here's Jon Ronson's take

nooka · 03/09/2008 19:10

Actually I think that although his views were unfortunate he was perfectly entitled to say them. He is a public speaker by dint of his profession. I just think his views should be considered in the same way as any other public figure, which I think they were.

Swedes · 03/09/2008 19:21

Nooka The Arch of Cant. sits in the Lords. The Lords' purpose is (as you know) to provide a check and balance mechanism to the (elected) House of Commons to prevent abuse of power. Is he not upsetting that by proposing policy?

nooka · 03/09/2008 20:33

But was his speech in that context? To be honest I can't remember.

IorekByrnison · 03/09/2008 21:16

He didn't propose any policy. He never used the word "should". He was observing what was already happening regarding the use of elements of Sharia Law in this country and what was likely to happen in the future.

AtheneNoctua · 03/09/2008 21:17

Absolutely, Donnie! When someone has to resort to that sort of tactic it usually means they have run out of logical arguments.

CD, no they aren't cultish. Not at my church anyway. Might be different at other churches.

I don't understand this obsession with local community here in the UK. Why do people have to go to a crappy school because it is the one they live closest to? Why do people have to go to crappyhospitals just because someone drew a boundary line (incidentally I didn't have DS at my local hospital either. I wiggled my way into Queen Charlotte). Why should my children be forced to get an inferior education because of our post code. I pay my share of taxes. I work hard and contribute to this country where I am able. I'm not sending my kids to a school I don't like. No, I don't feel like I took something that rightfully belonged to someone else in terms of the two school places I bagged in different LEA. I do what I can to give back to the church and school because I am grateful for those places for my kids. I do a lot more than people who have a lot more time on their hands than I do.

IorekByrnison · 03/09/2008 21:17

Here

msdemeanor · 03/09/2008 22:13

That is absolutely not what he said on the Today programme, because I heard him. He was pretty gung ho for it there. Idiot.

IorekByrnison · 03/09/2008 22:23

It wasn't the Today programme it was the World at One. There is a transcript on the link in my last post.

solidgoldbrass · 03/09/2008 22:29

Athene: so are you defining 'community' by something other than geography? That is, I suppose, fair enough (the gay 'community' do not, after all, all live in the same village). But it does actually sound a bit dubious that you want to isolate your DC in some 'community' who all have the same imaginary friend: it doesn't make for social cohesion. does it?
And I make no apologies for referring to people's imaginary friends as imaginary friends: in a one-to-one situation I would extend the same courtesy to an adult's imaginary friend as I would to a toddler's. It's just that 'imaginary friend' is quicker to type than God/Allah/Jesus/Ganesh/Goddess/Higher Power/Osiris/Jehovah/Rama/Odin/Supreme Being/Freda Erzuili/It/Whoever.

msdemeanor · 03/09/2008 22:44

OK, I heard the One report again on Today, I guess. But yes, he was all for allowing Sharia Law, and I think this statement is particularly sinister.

"a lot of what's written suggests that the ideal situation is one in which there is one law and only one law for everybody...but I think it's a misunderstanding to suppose that that means people don't have other affiliations, other loyalties ...and the law needs to take some account of that, so an approach to law which simply said, 'There is one law for everybody and that is all there is to be said, and anything else that commands your loyalty or your allegiance is completely irrelevant in the processes of the courts'. I think that's a bit of a danger."

No, you idiot, it's called equality and fairness!