Work for dole

[ReallyTired]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7514513.stm

I think that proposals like these are long over due. Although I think that if you make people work full time for their benefits they won't have time to look for job.

Prehaps they should work three days a week and look for a job two days a week.

There are people who for good reasons cannot work full time, but certainly could do something part time.

I have a 2YO DS and my partner goes to work all day then I work 13 hour shifts 3 nights a week just to scrape by. I barely get minimum wage at £5.70 an hour working in a care home never mind £8 an hour where do you get your figures Xenia?

I have friends who abuse the benefits system and it annoys me so much that they get more than I do for sitting on their arses and TBH one has an 8YO and doesn't work because of him then complains she's skint and goes out every weekend drinking and buying new outfits for herself. People like this should be made to go back to work IMO.

i am pmsl@ 'just move to get work'.i have been browsing house exchange forums for the past week,as that is they only way as HA tennants we would be able to move,but nobody wants to move to where i am because there is no work and its a shithole!
xenia-are you really a mother?

mamdiva-i have a former friend who is still abusing the benefits system as far as im concerned.her children are 13 and 14 and she doesnt have any disabilities or health problems,yet she is still on IS.i agree that mothers like that should be made to work.i personally wonder what they find to do all day

I think there needs to be a serious overhaul of the benefits system to ensure that people are not penalised for working by loss of tax credit/ HB etc - if they are able to legitimately work as well, they should be able to keep the money they've earned as a bonus up to a figure making up a reasonable living income for a family of their size.

ATM, it does seem to help those who can't be bothered or can play the system instead of being a safety net for the most vulnerable.

In London cleaners in domestic homes can and do get paid £8 an hour. Babysitters charge that too per hour.

Yes, of course I'm a mother. When we first moved to London we didn't have a child so the one room in the communal type house with bathroom a floor down shared with others, was tolerable until we sorted things out. Then we lived in employer provided accommodation when I was pregnant which obvious is possible for some people but were able to buy before the first baby arrived.

Another thing which would help people on low wages, especially those on min wage would be to let them earn any overtime in the same job as tax free earnings. This would give people an incentive to earn, especially young people.

www.nih.gov/news/pr/jan2007/niehs-31.htm

My DH was made redundant last November and it took him nearly 6 months to find another job. We would be better off if he was still claiming 'the dole'.

It takes DH an hour to get to and from work, there is no public transport available so he is using my battered old car. The MOT was done this morning and has cost £150 and I'm not sure how we are going to pay the other bills this month as we are still awaiting the outcome of our housing benefit claim. DH got his second months pay a week ago and when the rent went out a couple of days later he was left with £149. If the MOT had cost much more we wouldn't have got it done so no transport and DH would be back on the dole. Not sure whether this would count as either being sacked or leaving a job though and if so he wouldn't be eligible for benefits either.

Luckily we get £87 per week WTC & CTC which is keeping us just about afloat at the moment. This month we got £540 more in earnings and tax credits than when DH was unemployed. However if he was still on JSA we would also get all of our council tax and most of our rent paid. They have cost us £730 this month! Add to that the costs of actually working and running a car to enable him to get to work we are definitely worse off in work.

I can't let DH do overtime as it could mess up the housing benefit claim and he's constantly knackered from the weird shift system as it is. DH wants to work which is good but I wanted him to start looking for something else. Big problem with that is that once DH had started his training he was told that if he left within one year he will have to pay back the cost of his uniform - a whopping £400.

Going briefly back to the OP: I think this is a terrible idea and as expat amongst others has said, it is targeting the vulnerable and the wrong 'scroungers'. I think there are many of us who will not be currently affected if this policy were to be brought in, but we know only too well how easily circumstances can change.

D'you know what Xenia, so what if that's real life? Is that what you people are promoting as something we as a society should settle for?

We may all be in the gutter, but fuck me, I'd rather be looking at the stars. You people talk about aspirations, but if all you can aspire to for society as a whole is shit work and shit emotional nurture for children, then I can't really see how you differ from the legendary feckless teenager whose only aspiration is to gain a council flat from reproducing. I don't really think your aspirations for society are that much higher, frankly. I don't buy either of them.

But I see that as a way in for people to realise their ambitions by having the discipline of work and realising they could move into better work. In a way it's a head start for them. Obviously we will always need low paid people doing unskilled work but many people start with that and then move up to better things.

Being on the dole is pretty demoralising, many people would benefit from working for their dole if it was properly facilitated and not exploited. Having a job to get up for could be motivating and raise peoples self esteem, possibly provide some experience. It depends how it is managed - a positive outcome or just punishment.

I think the news often presents things just for entertainment and sensationalism and i'm getting so sick of it. It doesn't seem to be neutral and informative anymore.

where is expat?

Xenia, what you are obviously utterly incapable of comprehending, is that not everyone has the same ambitions as you.

Human beings are infinitely complex and infinitely diverse and a life spent pursuing money is imo a life lived poorly. And an imagination which accepts that it is OK to construct a society in which a section of humanity is treated as the drone class, even temporarily for some of the individuals in it, is way below the best imaginings of which we as human beings are capable, thankfully.

Read every letter of Xenia's post.

Because this is exactly how the Tories are going to sell 'welfare reform': as doing you and society a huge favour. And that is how they will be able to start it up - with people on incapacity benefit and then ramp it up to anyone and everyone who falls on hard times, by leading you to believe that it's your fault and personal failing if you don.

It's a wax firescreen to keep the sheeple's eyes full of smoke whilst they carry on with doing exactly whatever the hell they want.

If you don't believe me, take a trip to the US and see what years of Republic president and Congress has done.

"but many people start with that and then move up to better things."

and many don't - they end up stuck in "dead end" jobs for their entire life.

well, FAQ, in the eyes of Xenia, that's their fault if they don't.

entirely.

it shows a lack of discipline, ambition, work ethic, etc.

are you buying this?

neither am i.

But that's their own fault doncha know FAQ. Because they either choose to be in the drone class by not working hard enough, or they're too incompetent to get out of it, so unfortunately they just have to stay there. It may not be very comfortable, we're only human so can't aspire to anything better for our species.

Fuck me our aspirations have sunk so low.

Hi Expat!

so glad you distinguished republican!

Love love Obama.

Some of the opinions on this thread are just unbelievable - and I mean that literally.

Also, without wanting to sound snobbish, for some people who have fallen on hard times, being forced into that kind of drone labour could literally be the death of them. Death by drudgery and death by boredom. Unchallenging jobs can be even more stressful than difficult ones you know, especially if you're not even being paid for them.

Does it matter if you agree with me or not? This is labour party policy. It is happening. Our most left wing electable policy thinks it's a jolly good thing so unless you think you can bring the communist party into power then you're all stuck with it and extreme as you might think my views they seem to be mainstream Labour and Tory thinking. In the "Left Wing Republic of Mumsnet circa 1950" there might be differing views but in the real world the only parties that matter embrace this policy of work for dole so you'll have to set used to the idea.

I find some views on here incredible too. Why should people who have fallen on hard times not work for dole when so many people work very hard at the minimum wage? What is so special about the dole claimers that they can sit at home doing nothing and be paid by the very hard work through the taxes of those on the minimum wage.

Whilst there are extreme and widely varying views on this thread, it does suprise me too that so many people dont think that people on benefits should work - whether in a "dead end" job or a compulsory scheme set up by the Government.

Why should people not support themselves? If you are physically able to work, then you should. It doesnt matter what the job is as long as it puts food on the table and a roof over your head.

This scheme will at least be a start in the right direction. If so many people choose a life on benefits the system has gone wrong and needs an overhaul.

They think people have an entitlement to be completely idle. It goes with the present ethos of people having rights but not obligations. There used to be a thought in the UK that it was morally wrong to take state hand outs. Plenty of people who did contribute in to them as tax payers will not take them out but that ethos tends to be in much older people. It has entirely disappeared, that feeling of shame and wrong that you take a hand out and it goes with the demise of religion in many people's lives and increase in consumerism.

Anyway we'll see how it goes. With labour in charge I can't imagine it will work very well but time will tell.

I think what peple seem to be forgetting is that they are talking about putting people who have been on the dole for more than 2 years not just people who've been on it for a few weeks, we're talking about people who have either no skills, are finding it difficult to get into work or are just bloody lazy! Maybe forcing them into work isn't good enough maybe they should try putting them through a college course and guarantee them a job at the end of it. That way they are working towards something they enjoy and know it's going to be worthwhile. As for focusing what disabled people can do rather than what they can't, I think this might give so many disabled people a new lease of life they are not being penalised for what they can't do anymore now they're skills are being looked at which can only be a good thing.

If you are able to work then why shouldn't you learn something new and get out there?
Anyway rant over

I haven't read all of the posts but from glancing over them, am amazed at the excuses made for some people who have been on the dole for years, and the acceptance that this goes on. Some people have stated that in the great scheme of things, few people do this, and I expect that in some areas this is the case.

However, as somebody who lives in a village only a few miles from a very 'deprived' area and teaches in a school in that area there are a great deal of people who have absolutely no intentions to work whatsover. I agree that there are some people in genuine circumstances, but there are so many who do so little to help themselves. For example, having more children whilst ALREADY being on the dole, not taking advantage of training/courses that are very readily available in our areas and so on.

I absolutely agree a poster who said that years ago it was morally wrong to accept 'hand outs' and now there is no stigma attached. I do speak from experience - a close relative of mine and her husband work long hours a week in relatively low paid jobs. They have 3 children and could claim the same amount on benefits. Why do they do it? It gives them a sense of pride that they are able to pay their mortgage, it sets an example to their children that parents do actually get off their backsides and work, they have the foresight to realise that as their children get older they would lose any benefits and it would be so much harder to get back into work after several years out, they have received training within their jobs and are slowly on the up, and having been brought up in a family with a strong work ethos, living on benefits unless there is a physical reason why you cannot work, is morally wrong.

For posters who say 'why work in a crap job when you can get the same in benefits?' - I am astounded. What happened to your sense of pride? What has happened to the principle that we take repsonsibility for ourselves?