Work for dole

[ReallyTired]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7514513.stm

I think that proposals like these are long over due. Although I think that if you make people work full time for their benefits they won't have time to look for job.

Prehaps they should work three days a week and look for a job two days a week.

There are people who for good reasons cannot work full time, but certainly could do something part time.

it may well be higher than that - but I still firmly believe that the numbers that are illegitimately claiming benefits long term (ie the lazy scroungers) are still very much in the minority.

Scroungers are more likely to get themselves diagnosed with something and take incapacity benefit. It is not always clear cut either. I know somebody who injured himself in an accident and cannot do the work he was doing before the accident. He is 25 and has been claiming incapacity benefit for the past two years. It is a leg injury which will never fully heal but I know more seriously disabled people who have no difficulty working.

I think my friend is a scrounger of sorts. And that the incapacity benefit is not helping him because it is making it not worthwhile for him to retrain or take an entry level office/call centre job. Doing nothing for so long has given him low self esteem and a dependence on weed. I suspect that he is becoming genuinely depressed about his situation and would be much better off if he had not got caught in this benefits trap.

figroll - the figure may be wrong they may not be quite right. I have never ever seen figures for woman that have babies to prevent themselves for going back to work, of course this would be a great weapon for those in opposition. I doubt though they exsisit vecause although you could probably statisticly say how many woman are claiming benifit and then go on to have subsequent child, the figures would be so altered and hard to prove due to the fact they are probably so minute in the scheme of things and really unless obsevie not worth worrying about.

As for massive cover ups - it cant be that massive when you look at the total figures can it..... I suppose though if 3% is massive to you though it is massive - do quantify what massive represents.

upwind-getting yourself diagnosed with something is hardly easy.how do you know your friend didnt have MH problems before the accident and the injury caused him to relapse?

anyway,it wont be an issue when the new 'empoyment support allowance' comes in later this year,as apparently the focus will be on what long term sick and disabled people can do,rather than what they cant

"If you cant get a job after a year then you either aren't looking hard enough or not willing to work at any job." Or maybe, for whatever, you've been out of the market too long for the jobs you're qualified to do, and other employers won't give you the time of day because they're ageist, sexist and afraid of people who are better than them. Sounds harsh, but it's true.

Sorry, that should have read "better qualified" but the gist is the same. People who claim it's easy to get a job have clearly never tried to find one, at least not in an area where there aren't many of them.

that is VERY true, Twinkle.

my FIL was made redundant after working in maintenance/groundskeeping when he was 55.

it took him aeons to find another job.

luckily, his wife was still working full-time and he had a slight pension.

but he finally got part-time work as a groundskeeper for the Church of Scotland and is still working part-time in his 60s.

he may stop soon, however, as the abolition of the 10p has hit him hard so he doesn't really think it's worth it anymore.

"Other mothers can look after the children whilst the mothers do the community service work. A lot of us do domestic work with children around who just have to lump it if we're too busy to see to their needs. Many of us work from home and also keep an eye on children. I am sure it is workable. You could even have buggy pushing through parks with your litter bag on your shoulder and pick up the litter as you go whilst the baby is with you or strapped to your front as many women classically work around the world."

Bloody hell Xenia, you sound like DH's ex and that's not a good thing, believe me.

Most women do work and most of us manage to mind children when we aren't working plus do all kinds of jobs domestically at the same time. There are plenty of ways we can get these mothers with young children to do their full time work for benefits whilst their babies are with them. I can design the scheme or give Brown ideas if he likes.

Xenia - and do you really believe that all those woman around the world who routinely take their DC with them on their backs find it easy or enjoy doing poorly paid jobs in such a way????

'I can design the scheme or give Brown ideas if he likes. '

Yes, just what 'Blood, Sweat and Tshirts'.

Notice even the cotton pickers, all women, didn't have their kids with them whilst they worked?

Or is the plan to put the kids back into the mills to work?

FAQ, in the world according to people like Xenia, it doesn't matter if they enjoy the work they do. What matters is that they work.

If they want more rewarding work, then the 'pull yourself up by the bootstaps' theory applies, which states that it is ALWAYS possible to elevate your position to one of greater status, and if you don't, it is because of your own personal failings.

Why don't we all swap children

What a rational proposition

sorry, just watch Blood, Sweat and Tshirts.

I'm loving this idea. Force poor women out to work for a pittance while their children are minded by affluent women who are lucky enough to have a wealthy partner.

And (a few) people on here genuinely this is a good idea. WTF????! What kind of a country is this? Not one that I recognise that's for sure.

I'm loving this idea. Force poor women out to work for a pittance while their babies/children are minded by affluent women who are lucky enough to have a wealthy partner.

And (a few) mean-spirited and smug people on here genuinely think this would be a good thing. WTF????! What kind of a country is this? Not one that I recognise that's for sure.

Oh sorry, don't know what happened there. Ignore the first one of those.

And another thing, before I retire to bed. Those women around the world who work with a baby strapped to them tend not to be picking up other people's disgusting shite at the same time. Directly supporting yourself by growing food, fetching water etc. is somewhat different.

If these proposals involved making land available to grow produce, for example, or provide some other means of people working for themselves instead of being used as society's slaves, then I think the reaction would be somewhat different.

I very much doubt it will apply to mothers with children under 7 actually so it's a fairly pointless debate. I just know loads of women who work when they have very small babies. There will be tons of mumsnetters who have done that too and no it's not easy but it's what we have to do. My work is not comparable to what these women we are talking about here are qualified to do but I was perfectly able to make business calls and work within 24 hours of having twins. People who do manage this kind of thing then feel pleased at their accomplishment and more pragmatically I am sure mot of us have done all kinds of housework stuff with a baby strapped to us. You don't have the time other than to do that if you have a crying one so why not hoover someone else's house rather than just your own (to get your benefit)? I can't see the difference. Then when you see you can get £8 an hour if you did it privately rather than just your £60 a week or whatever you might then move into a proper job.

"and do you really believe that all those woman around the world who routinely take their DC with them on their backs find it easy or enjoy doing poorly paid jobs in such a way????"

Who said working for a living had to be 'easy' or 'enjoyable'?

hahahahaha at £8hr for cleaning - not round here you won't - you'll be lucky to get £6

FAQ- I have reported the drug dealers living on benefits who live near me a thousand and one times. They still live there despite being raided by the police 3 times. What more can I do but to watch a new build terrace house go down the toilet, when a deserving couple with a baby could be living there instead of being stuck in a 3rd floor flat?
Along with the nice neighbourhood I (used to)live in? There is always at least one house/flat within social housing that deal drugs and abuse the system and it gives good tenants a bad name.
And sadly we have to pay for it!
Can't really see what is to report on the other family - they don't work and live rent free. Where is the crime?

Cote has it right. Tghis is the point. Work and balancing children even on the sums I earn is difficult. You drag yourself in when you're ill. You do what you have to do to keep and feed your children. You put yourself out. In my case you might work through the night on a 20 hour shift or get up at 5am to catch a flight having got to bed at 1am because you were working. You queue at 5am for 2 buses to take you from the council estate so you can start work at 9am in the school kitchens. You leave your children alone or with care you don't think is always best. This is real life both for women working at the top and women at the bottom and it ought to be real life for those on benefits too.

On cleaning rates depends where you live. People move all over the globe in the hope of higher wages. I moved to get work.

Xenia - yes you moved to get work - how does someone that barely has enough to feed their family (work poor or on benefits) manage to move to find higher wages?

And Xenia - do you honestly believe that working and balancing children/childcare is the same on a high salary as it is on £5.52 an hour? With no sick pay,

And you would really leave your children alone in order to be able to feed them??? If we're talking teenagers - then yes I can see how that's doable - but a child younger???