Work for dole

[ReallyTired]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7514513.stm

I think that proposals like these are long over due. Although I think that if you make people work full time for their benefits they won't have time to look for job.

Prehaps they should work three days a week and look for a job two days a week.

There are people who for good reasons cannot work full time, but certainly could do something part time.

What if you are an unskilled lone parent and cannot get a job from 9-5? What if you're in a rural area like this and 90% of the work is temporary/seasonal or shift work? What do you do about childcare then, seeing as it's illegal to leave your kids alone for such a reason until they're 14?

What if you're a lone parent and your skill is something that requires shift work, such as assistant in a care home, nurse, midwife, lorry driver, till operate in Tesco, etc.?

And again, WHY are so many who are living in poverty also in work?

Anyone? Anyone?

I also would not put my kids in school 8-6, 5 days a week, I don't think it is fair really, the school day is long enough. If I had to work then I would work p/t or school hours. I don't see why a lone parent should have to leave their kids for all that time. The government would never encourage home schooling as they prefer to have the control there.

A paracite benefit claimant is being supported by thousands like me who are earning not much more than the minimum wage. I pay a huge whack of tax on my piddling salary and only get a fraction of it back in child tax credits. I lose approximately £250 a month income tax and NI. I work damm hard and I deserve my money.

NI contributions - if you earn over 40k a year you benifit from the steep decline in NI contributions, 1% over 40k how does that work as fair.

10% rate of tax removed - from the poorest in society earning the minimum wages, yet if you earn over 20 k it will not effect you.

No problem with taxing the minium wage earners to the hilt but steep declines for the above adverage and well above adverage earners.

How come it is never mentioned about the fact that NI contributions stand at 1% for high earners?

I work dam hard for my money so how come I pay a far higher tax % than someone earning 10 times what I earn.
It is the same for you if you are paying £250 per month in tax - yet if NI was put on a sliding scale you wouldn't have to pay so much tax yourself.

I think we should start at the top and work down to the bottom, there is no need to over tax the rich but it is about time they started paying a fair share instead of increasingly over taxing the poor/minumum wage earners.

This about sums it up:
'James Purness says this scheme will increase employment and reduce poverty. On the contrary, poverty and debt will increase. I hardly think that the employment will be anything meaningful. The thing that sticks in my gullet is that all this stems from a man who has made the most of parliamentary allowances including claiming in excess of £20,000 pounds for painting his country mansion and removing moss from his garden. We should not be surprised at the hypocrisy of those in power.

nevervote labouragain, lowestoft, United Kingdom '

Do community service.

Just like offenders.

Yeah, let's criminalise the poor! There's a fucking novel idea.

wghat do you mean get in - I thought they were

we would be financially better off as a family if we claimed.

we don't.

but i still don't see why our financial problems are reason to criminalise other poor people.

we're all already persecuted enough in the taxes we pay and the cost of our housing.

Why don't we just bring back the workhouse and stop pussyfooting around...?

unpaid work is often very sueful and gievs offenders a hwoel newpurpose

Yes, cod, but most people on benefits are not convicted criminals.

Ah but next time he can get a dole scrounger to remove the moss from his garden - and it will be done for free

I was just about to type that!!

Offenders?! I am one of those paraSites on welfare, but I'm not a crim ok gov?

And in exchange, that scrounger will feel a new sense of purpose in lickin' the masta's boots.

Governments should be encouraging financial independence for everyone who is fit and able to work. Charity without end doesn't work, you have to eventually give people the means to support themselves.

I'd like to see a more effective safety net for people when the shit hits the fan, with a much better concentration of resources aimed at getting that person back to work and earning their own living as quickly as possible.

Time limits are important - for the bodies providing that support, as well as the unemployed person.

The minimum wage is far too low, and should be increased. There is no doubt that a Tesco, which is creaming off £2.7bn/yr in profits, can pay its shelf-stackers and checkout people more. Its top directors get multi-million pound bonuses.

BUT what do you do about the small to medium sized organisations whose staffing costs would make them unviable?

Are we willing to sacrifice those businesses and hand our pay packets over to Tesco at the beginning of every month?

This sounds very pro-corporate, but the only solution I can think of is to allow businesses to keep more of the money they make and ensure that it's funnelled into better pay through a much higher minimum wage. You'd have to reduce business taxation and costly (govt-related) bureaucracy in return for higher rates of pay and better working conditions for employees. Who knows.

And the lower tax thresholds need to be anhiliated. Why give people tax credits just so they can pay them back to the government in tax?

Governments should be encouraging financial independence for everyone who is fit and able to work. Charity without end doesn't work, you have to eventually give people the means to support themselves.

I'd like to see a more effective safety net for people when the shit hits the fan, with a much better concentration of resources aimed at getting that person back to work and earning their own living as quickly as possible.

Time limits are important - for the bodies providing that support, as well as the unemployed person.

The minimum wage is far too low, and should be increased. There is no doubt that a Tesco, which is creaming off £2.7bn/yr in profits, can pay its shelf-stackers and checkout people more. Its top directors get multi-million pound bonuses.

BUT what do you do about the small to medium sized organisations whose staffing costs would make them unviable?

Are we willing to sacrifice those businesses and hand our pay packets over to Tesco at the beginning of every month?

This sounds very pro-corporate, but the only solution I can think of is to allow businesses to keep more of the money they make and ensure that it's funnelled into better pay through a much higher minimum wage. You'd have to reduce business taxation and costly (govt-related) bureaucracy in return for higher rates of pay and better working conditions for employees. Who knows.

And the lower tax thresholds need to be anhiliated. Why give people tax credits just so they can pay them back to the government in tax?

expat - I agree with most of what you say on MN, but re:

"They make people redundant in order to keep the price of their shares high"

The goal of a company is to make money for its shareholders, not to perpetually pay salaries to everyone it has ever employed. The vast majority of companies over a certain size are public - i.e. their shares are traded on the stock exchange, meaning they have zillions of shareholders, and not a few 'fat cats' who get all the dosh. When companies feel a downturn coming, their rational response will be to downsize, making some people redundant, cutting investments, reducing purchases, etc. This is in the best interests of their shareholders and those who don't take these steps are either doing well despite economic conditions or being negligent.

"put the nations food producers out of business"

It is the job of the government to tax, regulate, and subsidise so that small producers will thrive and big producers will not become monopolies. It is unreasonable to blame the larger companies or importers for wanting to expand into new areas and make more money for their shareholders.

"don't pay a living wage"

Minimum wage is determined by the government, not by individual companies.

"their businesses spoil the environment"

That is a bit of a generalization, wouldn't you say? Some industries have by-products that need to be safely disposed of. Rarely a business might pollute the environment but I'd like to believe that government has sufficient controls in place that such pollution is found out quickly and dealt with swiftly.

"lend money irresponsibly"

Northern Rock management were incredibly stupid, but that does not mean the system is bad or that managements of all companies are irresponsible. Whenever economy goes bad, there will be a few companies who will be caught with their pants down and will go down.

Cote, the government works WITH business, their policies allow business to continue practices like this.

The government does this because they contend it encourages investment and employment.

But at what cost?

I think people need only to look to the US to see how easily and insiduously quasi-fascist regimes can occur.

Tesco don't need to raise the pay per hour - the goverment subsides the pay with working tax credit and child tax credit. This way tesco can make more and more profit on the back of the tax payer - who work darn hard for the minum wage.
Larger companies will of course employ more personel that have to use tax credits to give them a living income - this helps the larger company grow - but at the expense of the tax payer who is paying the wages bill every week.

i dont see hwy uinpaid work( indifferente formats) has ot mean they are criminals
ok clal it volunatry work then

doesn't the definition of voluntary imply that it's not compulsory?

As a parasite (!)can I point out that it doesn't matter what kind of work I might aim to do; paid, unpaid, worthy, challenging, monotonous, demeaning... I would still be left with the problem of what to do with my own children, and who would mind them.

Affordable childcare would mean I could 're-integrate' back into society with the salaried folk. I would not be trapped in a catch 22 poverty trap.