Work for dole

[ReallyTired]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7514513.stm

I think that proposals like these are long over due. Although I think that if you make people work full time for their benefits they won't have time to look for job.

Prehaps they should work three days a week and look for a job two days a week.

There are people who for good reasons cannot work full time, but certainly could do something part time.

totalmisfit, totally agree.

If everyone had a job, would the same people who previously looked down on those on benefit look down on those with the 'lowest' status jobs? It seems some people always have to resent someone to feel beter about themselves.

I have a relative on IB and he has mental illness and is an alcoholic, who would employ him?

To me, yes it can be annoying to watch other people who don't have to work and seem to have fancy holidays etc and can have as many kids as they want BUT I am pretty happy with my lot so don't spare more than a passing thought.

Speaking of Germany I have an uncle there who is now 63 and he has never worked. He is on the higher benefit now (I can't remember what it is called) and is very defensive about it.

Why would people think that this is a good thing? I am not talking about young women with small children, this is a bloke who has been perfectly able bodied all his life, but has had his life made easy by the state.

In Germany you get child benefit until your child is about 26 or 27, so I think they have real problems there too. All this is supported by people like me and my husband. If we all decided to do the same thing (ie, become incapacitated) the country would be in a right mess.

Sorry have just read through thread seems to have gone abit off topic and here's me ranting LOL.

Well as far as the single mothers go at which point do they become able to go back to work? I fully admire sionle parents etc but I do know some who play on it, like a friend who has a 7YO DS who's perfectly healthy yet she doesn't go to work because she can't start before 9am and can't finish after 3pm even though theres an after school club within his school?1? People like this should be sent to work.

As far as I'm concerned yes they should make those who can work go to work part-time on a trial basis with an employer and at the end of a month or so then make it permanent. Either way though there are far too many layabouts taking advantage of the 'benefits' yet the people who actually get off their arse and work would be better off sitting around.

But is not working really all that glamourous? (I mean for people who are not caring for kids/others) Aren't there benefits you have got from being in work that he hasn't?

I don't know about your uncle, he may have been over the age to have been affected by the change in system figroll when it was introduced.

The German state had a big problem after reunification because huge numbers of people in the former East became unemployed when the state-run industries had to close. And the state incurred a lot of other debts related to adapting the East to the standard of West Germany. Before that, the state was fairly comfortably able to support it's unemployed. Things have changed though and finding a solution to it here is a big problem for any govt. So far they are not having success with it (but then which govt has found a good solution?)

i think what people mind most about so called scroungers is that they worry the children who come from these families will turn to crime and affect society as a whole adversly. At least, that's probably the only thing that would worry me. I don't understand why people get so worked up about the fact that 'these people are sitting on their arses all day while we have to work to pay for everything'.

Quality of life isn't just about money - if htese people genuinely do deliberately shun work for whatever reason, then they are also depriving themselves of status, self-worth, education, socialisation and networking etc etc. They don't have 'everything we have for doing nothing.'

They have enough money to live on, but they are missing out of most of what life has to offer. Pity, and not anger is the appropriate reaction to the section of benefits claimants many posters are labelling 'scroungers'. They are not hurting you, it costs you virtually nothing for them to live the lives they live. They are hurting themselves.

I think it is easy to criticise single mothers if you have never been one. I think that secondary school age would be a good age to encourage p/t work. I don't see why lone parents should have to work more than school hours just because the government wants to open all schools 10 hours a day. I wouldn't put my kids in clubs all day whether I was single or not, to me the school day is long enough. School is not/should not be childcare. In some ways, the child needs a parent around more if that parent is doing the job of both parents and keeping on top of their house etc, they already have a full time job.

No I didn't mean it to come across as it did. I'm not criticsing her for not working because she has a child but she packs her DS off to school then goes into town and sits with her mates all day in cafe withfour younger children doimg nothing. The area I'm from is pretty bad for real scroungers not just people who can't work I mean people who take their dole money and go piss it all
away or inject it into thwemselves and no I'm not exaggerating. That's why as dsoon as I found out I was pregnant I moved away. I may sound a snob but I'm not honestly I just think that there are people out there who are genuine wasters and that needs to be sorted.

"Some communities (such as the one in the programme) were devastated from the closure of industries though and have never recovered. What if there are not enough jobs for everyone? "

We have loads of Poles, Indians, coming to work in our area. So why can't someone leave Wales to find a job in England? Its not as if they have to learn a foreign language or travel thousands of miles?

Yes really tired we have thousands of Poles in our area too and I have to say I know of a factory where they are seriously exploited.
You have a fair point why is it they can travel thousands of miles yet people who actually live here can't travel a few hundred? Or even just a few.

the Poles travel through dire necessity. The money the Polish govt is able to pay is minimal. Many unemployed get nothing at all. It is not just difficult for them to live in Poland, it is often impossible if their extended families cannot in some way support them.

I understood that the initiative was mainly aimed at NEETs, youths who leave school and are not in education, employment or training. Surely its right that they are targetted so they dont get used to not working and find it hard to get jobs if they have been unemployed for a long while?

We have just moved from living next to an estate where there were numerous youths like this. Their lives consisted of drug dealing, training and fighting their dogs and each other. Anything that attempts to tackle this sounds a good idea in my book.

Oh and the poster who has a neighbour who lives the life on riley on benefits are you sure they are not drug dealing? Our neighbours had a high old time on benefits - black cabs everywhere etc but turned out they were in fact drug dealers which solved the mystery...

I agree that no one should move from school into unemployment and I wouldn't mind a more hands-on govt approach to school-leavers.

Poland has a fantastically practical and attitude to training and educating its citizens: that is why there are so many plumbers, builders, electricians looking for work here. They already have the skills, they just need the jobs.

In England and Wales, apprenticeships are at an all time low, people are just not being equipped with the practical skills and qualifications needed to fill the jobs available. Schools are told to teach kids to pass exams in order to meet Gov targets, not to equip them with life skills. That is why kids leave school unable to find work in the 4th biggest economy.

There are jobs in the UK. It has to be remembered that many immigrants do not speak English or have british qualifications.

The problem is that long term unemployed people are devoid of any get up and go or initative.

Most areas have college courses for all kinds trades. I did an IT course when my son was little which was heavily subsidised. The FE college I went to had basic skills courses, plumbing, electrican, car maintaince courses or beautican courses. These courses were either free or unbelievably cheap for the unemployed.

The problem is that people think their sob stories is a reason never to work again even if they are able bodied.

yes but these things should be taught before people leave school. You do not have to become unemployed in Poland before you qualify to be taught these things for free.

Yes, training the long-term unemployed is a good way to go - what a shame we are discouraged from full-time education as this interferes with the time you should be spending on looking for work. Even if you are on a part-time course for whatever reason, if this goes on for longer than a few months you run the risk of being put on a 30 hour a week Work Placement and leaving the course half finished.

So exactly how are we supposed to better ourselves?

And i repeat, is a childminder classed as a scrounger as well because they 'aren't working' but could be just looking after someone else's school age kids?

I don't know if they do it anywhere else but I live in the Highlands and my 13YO brother is now in 3rd year and goes to college 2 afternoons a week to do joinery and he will leave scholol at 18 with a trade. There are also other courses hairdressing, computing, sports and fitness. I think this is a really good idea wish theyd done it with us. I left school and went to YTS for £55 a week but they ended up putting me through college.

youngbutnotdumb -what a great idea. Scotland is lightyears ahead in terms of education and training imo.

'What about single parents? And single parents who want/have to home educate? Will they be penalised?'

Apparently so, because they're bringing back the ol' 'If they're over 7 you need to go to work' part of it.

Yet on the same day, it was announced that top executives for all the rail companies will be getting bonuses well into the 6 figures, with one achieving a bonus of slightly over £500,000. All whilst passengers pay higher and higher prices to cram onto fewer and fewer carriages. Remember the West Coast line fracas at the beginning of the year?

'What about single parents? And single parents who want/have to home educate? Will they be penalised?'

Another debate, but do you think that the state should real encourage/ help home education. There are state schools and qualifed teachers across the land.

There is no subsidy for private education so why subside home ed.

"And i repeat, is a childminder classed as a scrounger as well because they 'aren't working' but could be just looking after someone else's school age kids? "

Childminders are paid for by the parents of the children they look after not the tax payer. Many SAHMs are supported by their husbands. In both these cases neither lot are scronging, they are both earning their living.

A paracite benefit claimant is being supported by thousands like me who are earning not much more than the minimum wage. I pay a huge whack of tax on my piddling salary and only get a fraction of it back in child tax credits. I lose approximately £250 a month income tax and NI. I work damm hard and I deserve my money.

I think the state is being extremely generous allowing someone to stay at home until their youngest child is seven, why not five? Frankly if after school club is good enough for the children of working parents then its good enough for all children.

If you want to be a SAHM for decades on end then you need to find yourself a rich husband to support you.

"Childminders are paid for by the parents of the children they look after not the tax payer"

Isn't there a portion(up to 80%?) of childcare costs paid for by gov't in some cases?

reallytired - the amount of tax that goes from your paycheck directly to the 'parasites' you describe is negligible to say the least. most of it goes on healthcare (parasites?) defence (well...) education (?) the whitehall machine (ho hum) and other forms of buraucracy.

Happy - so you would willingly choose to take a drop in earnings, when the money you have ccoming in is barely enough to survive on???

I'm currently on benenfits - and as much I as fully intend to try and fine some term time work once DS3 starts school in a few years time (has to be term time - as schemes for children my DS1 - and 2's by that time age are just not available around here) work.

However, I won't be taking any job that leaves me in a worse financial position - I struggle enough on benefits as it is - I couldn't even begin to think about surviving on less than I currently do!