Tribunal rules in favour of marriage registrar who refused to conduct civil partnerships

[melpomene]

here

The registrar claims that she was 'harassed' by being called homophobic. IMO she clearly was homophobic in refusing to carry out the duties of her job by supporting same-sex couples making commitments to each other. I agree with Peter Tatchell's comment: "Lillian Ladele claims she has won a victory for religious liberty. No, she has not. She has won a victory for the right to discriminate."

[TwoIfBySea]

But to act devil's advocate here for a second.

Is she not entitled to her beliefs?

Okay so it means having to tolerate some pretty bigoted people but to condemn them is surely sinking to their level.

Having said that she is obviously in the wrong job and expectations should be made clear in the job description.

[TheFallenMadonna]

Of ocurse she's entitled to her beliefs. As are we all. But if your beliefs prevent you from carrying out your job, perhaps you're in the wrong job.

[jesuswhatnext]

any registrar is entitled to have a religious belief, they are however PAID to simply register births, deaths, marriages and partnerships according to the current law of the land. When dh and i were 'married' by a registrar we were told that 'religious music was forbidden' as we were taking part in a non-religious ceremony.

many couples choose to have a civil ceremony BECAUSE it is non-religious. If this woman is SO troubled by her conscience perhaps she should take up a ministry and not expect civil servant salary/pension rights.

[MrsMattie]

I've come late to this thread, but fwiw, I find this ruling very worrying. This woman is completely in the wrong. If she can't do her job according to the council's rules and the law of the land, she should leave it. She is a registrar, not a vicar.

[MsDemeanor]

I also think what next - a registrar who refuses to register the births or do naming ceremonies for babies born out of wedlock?

[iBundle]

custy

I totally agreed with the Stonewall spokesman how this decision sets a very bad precedent

I believe that Lilian Ladele was allowed to swap shifts etc to avoid carrying out same sex civil partnerships, but it became unworkable.I think Islington is something like 3rd highest in no. of same sex couples getting wed, the numbers are v high

I have some very good friends who are having their civil partnership at Islington Town Hall in Sept so I take Lilian Ladele's stance very personally. My friends deserve the right to legalise their loving partnership (they already have 2 gorgeous children) and I will be there celebrating their day with their other friends and family. Hurrah that Ladele will not be there!

thanks madamez for pointing out the double-standards in taking part in ceremonies where couples were eg divorced and without the sanctity of the god she claims is so on her side..

[TheFallenMadonna]

Gawd, I want to see an actual ruling. Was the tribunal because she was 'harassed' because she had stated her opposition, or was it because she was forced to do something she felt she couldn't in conscience do? I thought it was the former, but all the coverage rather suggests the later.

[beaniesteve]

Did anyone hear teh woman defending her on Jeremy Vile this morning? (with Clive Anderson). Paul O'grady called in to the show and called her a bigot

[MamaChris]

We had a lovely civil partnership at Islington. The registrars there were very positive, even having press clippings of one of their registrars having a civil partnership on the walls. I imagine it would have been hard for two people to work together, one of whom is in a civil partnership and the other of whom insists on explaining why she doesn't think they're valid.

[MamaChris]

I would also be upset if I knew a homophobe would register ds's birth.

[InLoveWithSweeneyTodd]

I think what she failed to see is that a civil partnership is "civil", ie, nothing to do with religious union. It is a legal contract performed under the current law. It has no implications other than practical (taxes, inheritance, etc).
In fact a religious wedding ceremony is legally worth NIL if the civil paperwork is not carried out.
I think she was wrong to object.

However, she was very right to complain for harassment and bullying if indeed her colleagues were doing so.

[theangelshavethephonebox]

The registrar at our civil partnership was absolutely lovely, and insisted we come back to register ds' birth at the same place (I was 7 months pg at the time). The day was fab anyway and having her be so positive was just the icing on the cake. Tbh I never even considered that we might get a homophobic registar - you just expect that even if they don't like the job, they will be professional, pleasant and just get on with it - or else leave.

[UnquietDad]

beaniesteve - yup, that was the aforementioned Joanna Bogle

[madamez]

I'm actually surprised Joanna Bogle (I always did go at the name) is still going. Given that she was about 108 when me and my posse gave her a doing some 15 years ago...

[UnquietDad]

madamez, you have a posse? And you did Joanna? Not in a polyamorous way, i assume

[ilovemydog]

Wasn't there a Magistrate (family division) who was sacked because of his Christian beliefs as far as not placing adoptive children with homosexual couples?

Didn't he lose at tribunal?

[Flashman]

The one thing that I really have trouble getting my head round - is if you were getting married would you really want someone who did not want to be there doing it. i would have thought it would be best for both parties if she did not do them. It is just the council are so far up there own arse that they could not work anything out.

[TheFallenMadonna]

It was a harassment case.

[Flashman]

Yes I know that - but from what I read she used to swop appointments but some twat decided that was no longer acceptable and made an issue and harrassed her.

I was talking generally why would you want her there and care if she had refused.

[NorkyButNice]

One of the doctors at my GP surgery in the UK wouldn't prescribe any kind of contraceptive pill, or deal at all with abortion referral/morning after pill etc.

That was enough to put me off registering with her.

[Flashman]

The interesting one would be how would she react if some asked her to not register them as she was black - and they wanted someone white??

[Kimi]

I really do not think "She has won a victory for the right to discriminate."
Why should she be bullied in to doing something that she feels is wrong?

I have gay friends who think this ruling is good, as they want to be treated the same as other people not better because they are gay, and they are having a service next year but said they would understand someone not wanting to conduct it if it was something they strongly believed.

Why should the woman be bullied in to going against her relegion?

[madamez]

Kimi: if she feels that part of her job is morally wrong she should resign. Having a delusion religion doesn't entitle a person to special treatment, or it shouldn't do. She has won the right to make her stupidity everyone else';s problem.

[Veraduckworthshandbag]

Having a delusion religion doesn't entitle a person to special treatment, or it shouldn't do. She has won the right to make her stupidity everyone else';s problem.

So it is fair game to have a go about a person faith, is it?

Can have a problem with someone having a faith but not allowed to say anything against perverts?? Funny old world

[FAQ]

against perverts

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